All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@antipodean thanks!
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
People may say things out of frustration, but the ideal - for everyone except his mum - is that we win and he gets the sack.
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@booboo I've tried to give him credit, especially the way we started last year where he had time to build the team structure & gameplan he wanted after a difficult first year and there were some positive signs, but I've seen enough now. A win this weekend would be great, and I'll enjoy it like I do any other AB win, but I won't fool myself into thinking we're actually going to string some consistent performances together. None of Fosters teams have been able to do that, and his record with the ABs is no different - we can look great when things click, but against the top teams we'll more than likely get found out.
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@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them.
What do you expect of a nation that decide neutrality was best during WW2?
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching 🤦🏻
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
Spot on. The AB’s need more variation and finesse in attack rather just relying on Smith’s cutout passes which the Irish have learnt how to combat from first test. They rely too much on individual brilliance.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
I can also see the pattern he’s trying to create. The odd win is ruining it though.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Genuine question, I can't see any pattern. Could you explain?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Genuine question, I can't see any pattern. Could you explain?
I think Billy is being sarcastic
Foster's pattern is to make the ABs more beatable so as to enter the 2023 WC without the favourites tag and with such low expectations that they have a punchers chance of winning.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
I watched up until the first try and can already see that our attack has not changed at all whereas Ireland’s defence has changed markedly. Thanks for making me even more depressed
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@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
I watched up until the first try and can already see that our attack has not changed at all whereas Ireland’s defence has changed markedly. Thanks for making me even more depressed
Apologies, but Vic asked when we last started well.
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@ARHS to clarify the brain explosion is why did he choose to replace Andre and nor Dalton? Ardie was our most effective loose, Dalton had been very average this game.Did he see an issue with Ardiie? Replacing Ardie is the brain explosion I am referring to.
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What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating. -
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS to clarify the brain explosion is why did he choose to replace Andre and nor Dalton? Ardie was our most effective loose, Dalton had been very average this game.Did he see an issue with Ardiie? Replacing Ardie is the brain explosion I am referring to.
Dalton was off for Ofa.
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.Agreed. This is not a great AB team, but we shouldn't be this poor. I just feel like the team is less than the sum of the individual parts right now
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching 🤦🏻
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
Spot on. The AB’s need more variation and finesse in attack rather just relying on Smith’s cutout passes which the Irish have learnt how to combat from first test. They rely too much on individual brilliance.
It truly is the height of arrogance to assume that the same tactic that worked a little bit in T1, then was discussed ad nauseum on every fucking rugby forum on the interweb for an entire week, would work just as well when trotted out for T2.
It's so inane it's mind-boggling.
And it's not even that clever to begin with - dude with good pass mixes up the distance of said pass - fucking genius.
As I admitted somewhere, I haven't seen the game or even a full replay. But watching the highlights, all I see from us are box kicks, cut-out passes, and stupid fucking pods where the play is telegraphed and caught static then run straight, only to die in the tackle.
All the clips I see of Ireland, they seem to be using this weird running technique that I haven't seen in ages, where they run at these things called "gaps" (sometimes also known as "all black props") by running at "angles" with multiple passing options. Sometimes they even change the direction of these angles over multiple phases, it's truly quite perplexing!
Anyway, onwards and all that!
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
@number9 Read @antipodean's post above, will explain it to you. Not a brain explosion, fuckup from the officials. Foster/Shand were correct.
