All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland should have scored a lot more points given how they dominated us.
We need to learn how to exit properly, have an accurate kicking game, reduce errors. Pretty much a completely different gameplan to whatever you call the shit we put out tonight.
Spot on!
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean It kind of went to shit when Wayne Smith and that AFL skill coach left.
As Squidge Rugby said in his video about the first test: the All Blacks game plan is basically centred around individual brilliance and having better skills than everyone else.
Doesn't always work
It was good watch.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones not if its a rule, doesn't have to make sense.
Who rules who plays where then? I'm really not following you.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders Barnes is the ref for the 3rd test.
All set up for his redemption? 🤣
He's actually bloody good.
CAN be.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Foster is fat.
Very succinct analysis
In fact an acronym.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
Excellent post.
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@JC said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MiketheSnow First event (green): Ofa's yellow card. Second event (orange): Angus' red card. Both TH props. Thought they needed uncontested scrums because they forgot Bower could have been moved to TH. Because they went for uncontested scrums, they needed to lose another player (they chose Ardie). So off were Ofa, Angus and Ardie = 12 players.
But Angus was Ofa’s replacement, so by position only the TH and the No8 were off = 13 players. From memory Leicester F was already back from Siberia by the time the uncontested scrum was called, so 13 players wasn’t it?
Since when did logic come into things?
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Irish defence is rather good
Or is our attack really bad?
Considering BB try was a fluke then yes.
Take away his flukey stuff and you take away his game.
Then again I don't remember him gifted an intercept before and not being able to run at least 20 metres with it.Was he carrying an injury?
I vaguely recall he had a calf issue some months ago then he said it was fine? Maybe it was that returning?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
One thing that was somewhat innovative, was all those attacking penalties close to the line that we were tapping rather than setting a scrum for.
Not sure whether that was symptomatic that we knew our 7 man scrum was a busted flush, but I don't recall many NZ teams taking that route even when they've got a man in the bin. They'll still set a scrum with 7 men or stick a back on the side.
Perhaps thinking was that scrums would burn too much time. Of course if the angle which showed that Sami has scored hadn't been mysteriously missing, it would have been moot.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Think Kinsella is right. ABs down to 13 (RC, YC). To avoid teams deliberately taking advantage of uncontested scrums, if you don’t have a viable TH, you have to have a front row (any player will do) and then someone else goes off. Permanently. So you go down to 12 then remain at 13 for the match once YC player comes back. Is all a bit stupid as 15 vs 13 is never a contest
If correct that is absurd.
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@mariner4life he was really noticeable in the last ten minutes putting in loads of smashing hits. Two in quick succession on big men come to mind.
But its few and far between from him these days.
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Some sober reflections, presaged by observation that TMO interventions and cards are a lottery which diminishes the product:
ABs seemed complacent to start with, but after red card actually outmuscled Irish for a period, urged on by the yapping Smith.
Thought Irish 'deserved' to be up 10 at HT, but TBF ABs really fought well to claw back 7.
In fact, the game was lost in the 10 minutes BBBR was off with HIA. During that period go forward suffered. PT's weak scrummaging at LH, allied to Scooter's shoulder too high on Ofa's rump meant our scrum stuttered, and two bad calls led to 10 points, which could otherwise easily have seem ABs camped in Irish half.
From then on we seemed to have the nudge, but failure of TMO to see Sami T grounding (it was try on balance of probabilities but certainly not compelling evidence without the behind goal line angle) mean invaluable time burned and conversion wasn't a gimme. Small margins.
In other words, a game the Blacks weren't that far away from winning.
However, such losses uncover weaknesses, and here ABs reminiscent of Blues in SF final.
In the modern game there are always going to be soft penalties, and they tend to favour the attacking side. Also cards very positional: if Ofa tackled Ringrose (my MOTM for drawing two cards) 10 yards from our line would that have been more than penalty?
What Ireland identified, as did Razor, is that if you're playing mainly within oppo half the reffing lottery will fall your way.
ABs and Blues made common mistake of trying to play too much rugby in own half. Irish kicking was designed to repel us back to halfway whenever we got near 22. They actually structured their patterns around that to create correct angles for kicks to be effective.
Added to fact that their chasers were excellent and ours mediocre.
The annoying thing is that Jordie seems perfect to deal with this, so long as team adopts correct tactical approach. -
I think there is a whiff of "substitute teacher syndrome" off the team.
I'd say a fair few of the players (if not all) know Razor should have got the job.
The Crusaders lads are receiving better coaching at club than country and a few of them can't make the national team over lads they regularly beast in Super Rugby.Similarly I think a fair few reckon Cane shouldn't be captain or starting 7.
*dropping him in 2019 was a massive mistake though. He does add starch to the defence.Then we have a revolving door of lads "having a go" at the positional buffet.
"Jordie have a go on the wing there son".
"No lets play with dual pivots, Beaudy jump in at FB there you little scamp"
"Hey Rieko , Fancy a go in the centres?"
"lets play ALB and Goodhue the wrong way around".Less said about the back row the better.
Everything about the team feels so temporary and there are no stalwarts or incumbents beyond the same oul lads who got manhandled in Tokyo.
Thats why someone like Laumape was a silly one to let go. Sometimes you need to be able to just drop it off hospital style to a jagged elbowed ball of energy to make you a guaranteed 4/5 yards and reset.
We have fifteen 7's players at the moment all sea gulling in the wide channels.
The Maori played with more testicular fortitude.
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@MN5 I think it was in Cory Janes book, where he said himself Carter and McCaw had come down for the hotel breakfast in singlets and Mealamu sent them back up their room to put on t-shirts as their attire was inappropriate.
Pedantic yes. Outdated probably, but it speaks to a culture where there was respect and a hierarchy.
At the moment there is a load of sunshine boys of the "churr bro" ilk.
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@Bones as I explained right at the start, I thought the rule was if a prop is off for a card and the team have to take a player off to bring a prop on dor a scrum, the player coming off for the prop, had to be a forward too.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 I think it was in Cory Janes book, where he said himself Carter and McCaw had come down for the hotel breakfast in singlets and Mealamu sent them back up their room to put on t-shirts as their attire was inappropriate.
Pedantic yes. Outdated probably, but it speaks to a culture where there was respect and a hierarchy.
At the moment there is a load of sunshine boys of the "churr bro" ilk.
You might enjoy this read:
The cultural shift that's transformed the All Blacks
A massive change in the All Blacks culture is helping to bring the best out of players.
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Man, that was a total heap of shit wasn't it?
Bad reffing - the card situation needs to be sorted out as it is turning games into lotteries, but the ruck cleanouts? Those guys were hit as part of the ruck, and as part of the clean moved past the ruck - because they were good cleans. It's not like they were held down afterwards or anything. Crazy stuff.
I think Ta'avao was unlucky. To me that was clearly an accident, therefore not foul play, therefore yellow only?
Ofa on the other hand, that was deliberate, and lucky to get off so lightly. Overall that's the worst game from an AB prop I can remember. Having said that, James Lowe did basically the same thing in midfield and it was penalty only?
Our coaching staff are just fucking thick, and arrogant to go with it. That's all there is to it. Our shit gameplan of kicking the ball away in midfield doesn't work. It doesn't work because they're ready for it, they are solid under the high ball, and they shield exceptionally well. I personally think they shield illegally, but if it's legal then fine, but why the hell aren't we doing it too? Their guys receiving kicks are protected by 3-4 players 'retreating', and our guys are in a contest every time they're receiving a kick - it's laughable. Every Irish player is trying to rip the ball out in tackles. For us, almost nobody, and our ball-carriers don't even look like they're expecting it. Why?
The whole hubris of this 'small margins', 'a few tweaks needed' bullshit fills me with rage. It's like the arrogance regarding the 50-22 rule, when Foster said something along the lines of 'haven't really looked at that, rugby is a simple game, we'll just concentrate on doing what we do'. Fuck my days you gobshite moron. It's a significant rule change, and if you can't be bothered to have a think about that, then I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you can't be arsed having a look at what other teams are doing and taking a few ideas from them, or y'know, coming up witha plan to counter what we all know they're going to do.
The worst thing is that now we have a decider, the silly fluffybunny is going to go into his shell and select all the same players because it's a must-win and he thinks he can't afford to throw new guys in there. And look, we're at home, our team will be fired up, the Irish are going to be pretty knackered - so we are still favourites to win it - but then we've again made zero fucking progress and he can pretend that everything is sweet and it was just the cards that were the problem.
Anyway, as others have said Bower was good. Taylor should have been gone last year, not sure why we're still talking about this. Ofa, FML enough said.
I thought Retallick wasn't too bad to be honest - not his peak, but he did some good stuff and I don't think he was outplayed. We missed Whitelock though. Barret some good some bad as always.
Ardie Savea did nothing until he was off. Normally he does stuff in the last 20 mins, but didn't get the chance. Sam Cane was pretty good, lots of tackling - he is just a harder-tackling Reuben Thorne though. Dalton was disappointingly anonymous.
Aaron Smith was again exceptional. The workrate when we were down players was incredible really.
Barrett, jesus. I don't know whether to blame him or the gameplan - it's probably both - but I am just so sick of us giving away all the possession and territory in every game.
Tupaea had a shit game after a very good game last week. Rieko anonymous.
Reece was bloody good, seems to just keep improving. Jordie Barrett was mediocre, Leicester had a shocker.
