Trump's behaviour over the election perfectly encapsulates why he is so reviled. It has nothing to do with whether he is conservative or liberal, or left or right or anything like that. This is the bullshit line trotted out by his supprters - it's all because the media is left wing. It's not really, it's that he is a piece of shit who thinks he is above the institutions.
He's acted like that from the outset, and done his utmost to remove independence from the other branches of government, and basically wants to behave like he is a king. Now he's tweeting that he wants people's votes to not be counted, so even democracy itself isn't above his own self-interest.
Shame on the Republicans who have not had the strength of character to denounce him. If he loses, watch the backlash from these cowards.
Shame on the Democrats who have been so fucking useless that they may not be able to defeat someone both immensely unlikeable and abjectly incompetent, who with 4 years to prepare for it have managed to come up with 77 (?) year old Joe Biden.

this WAS the big game. this WAS the game you keep your powder dry for.
the reality is that we aren't doing that, it's just wishful thinking from fans to excuse us playing like shit, which frankly we've been doing for quite a while now - our servings of shit have regularly been papered over by bits of individual brilliance getting us out of jail when we've been dominated all day, and a shit-hot lineout. the lineout saved us last week against the poms, but wasn't quite enough this week. we dropped the miracle balls that would have won the game this week. but both weeks, and against the saffas, we have been pretty thoroughly dominated this year.

we kick way too much ball away, and badly. the opposition give us scraps, we finally get the damn ball, and these primadonna fuckwits immediately put boot to ball in low percentage plays. then they laugh about it at half-time.

we get a penalty advantage and BB takes a fucking drop kick. the potatoes get a penalty advantage and they - jonny fucking sexton - try to score a try. we are fucking dumb. we kick a penalty to give us a chance of a draw. a fucking draw. the all blacks. playing for a draw and kicking drop goals under penalty advantage. fuck my days what a fucking disgrace.

all it takes is an off-day for a couple of guys when our tactics are mud and we are so reliant on individual brilliance. sam whitelock, a great player - giving away dumb penalties. BBR, a great player - dumb penalties, terrible handling - his worst game i can remember. it's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water, but when guys like that don't perform, it does show the glaring deficiencies in other areas.

we are dumb. we still can't cope with a good rush defence. we haven't really been able to since the 90s when france used it to beat us. our defensive line speed was utter shit - so the potatoes made ground all day and had momentum. their line speed was really good, and there seems not to be a single fucker out there who has the wits to think, 'oh you know, with all this fanning out and quick line speed, we could either pick and go a few times or throw it behind the line to get around the rush'. barely a pick and go all game, and it was only in desperation when chasing the game that we threw in some depth to get around the rush - which promptly worked - except then when we made breaks, we were so totally lacking in composure that we forced dumb shit low percentage passes, or kicked the damn fucking ball away yet again. pack of fucking morons.

barnes is still a shit ref, inconsistent and doesn't seem to understand when a ruck forms. he had nothing to do with the loss however.

to the players:
karl T got a bit of a rough ride, but not as bad as some are making out. 2 scrums went badly, and 1 barnes should have reset. why barnes didn't blow their scrum when we were dominant i don't know. franks was solid, as was taylor, and all the replacements were good too. poor old ofa showed great hands to hold that piece of shit perenara pass - but when you have to catch that slop you're always going to get barrelled and struggle to win the ruck.
BBR his worst, and whitelock pretty poor too by his standards. scott barrett played well, was our best lock, but was playing out of position which fucks our forward balance.
squire was okay before injury, ardie at least tried hard, and read was rank. dropped everything, hasn't run hard into contact in about 3 years, and is a shitty captain. the way the irish were playing, and the way barnes was reffing, the player in our 23 most suited to that game was matt todd. bit disappointed he didn't manage to win it for us in his 3 FUCKING MINUTES YOU MORONS.
aaron smith's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as it was against the lions. he is still so much better than perenara -because he can actually pass - but if we don't have the brains to use smith's speed to get around the rush then he's wasted, and why not use a bigger running halfback.
BB. well it's pretty fucking limiting when your 10's weakest skill is his passing. also dumb. also doesn't appear to care a great deal. also thinks wasting try-scoring opportunities with drop-goals is a good idea, and funny. can run, can catch a high ball.
crotty and goodhue were both really pretty good given the shit they were served up. 20-something touches vs 40-something for the irish midfield wasn't it?
ben smith no ball. can run.
rieko no ball. no composure. can run.
mckenzie, not bad, but we are wasting ben smith on the wing.

to ireland: well bloody played, a good plan, well executed. you knew exactly what we were going to do, because we do it all the time (keeping our powder dry hahaha fuck me) . we box kick and put up high balls. you dealt with that easily. you know that if you rush, we will chip. you covered that easily then kept the ball. you knew that we throw our ruck ball to forwards one or two off the ruck - you got up quick on them and we never made the gain line.
great fire and commitment from all on the park, and an inspirational and thoroughly deserved victory, which i could really have done without watching.

rant over. as you were everyone.

@gt12 said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

@Hooroo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

@canefan said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

@Hooroo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

@Salacious-Crumb said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

@booboo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:

#1. Brad Thorn securing lineout ball 80th min Final 2011.

Up to that “moment” my asshole had never been tighter my entire life.

For me it is when a shattered Stephen Donald was tackled on one side of the park and got turned over at the ruck, France spun it to the other side of the field and the first tackle made since the turnover was Donald on the other side of the field.

The guy was running on pure Columbian grade uncut adrenalin.

That's how legends are born. I don't think he probably has to buy himself beers when he's out on the town in NZ

Deadset, I will always buy him a beer if he is in the same pub!

This may sound a bit strange, but it’s something I’m looking forward to being able to do - I’m sure at some stage in my life I’ll be in the same room as him, and at that point the drinks will be on me. I can’t wait.

That reminds me of my favorite JK story - I met him in Tokyo one evening when I was out on a date with a very good looking girl (sadly hot crazy was in full effect though). I quickly talked to him on the way in (thanks, you’re a legend etc), then he stopped by our table on his way out (he was Japan coach at the time I think) to briefly say hi, making it seem like I kind of knew him (even though he was a complete stranger of course). Then gave me a greeeeat look like ‘get in there!’ and left, and I did, until the crazy fully developed.

great wing man JK.

Pathetic. Lomax outplayed on starting debut, Coles stupid then Taylor shit lineouts. Moody okay I guess, bit flat. Pat a bit flat too. Whitelock tried hard in a well beaten pack. Cane looks a bit knackered. Savea is, again, a lightweight against big teams playing fast defence and makes no impact. He should have been subbed rather than Frizzel, at least then we would have had someone make a few more tackles and hit some rucks. And you'd also be leaving on the guy who just had a rest, and taking off the guy who hasn't. Sotutu tried hard once on, a couple of good runs and had the skip pass execution been on - as it usually is - we'd have been in with a chance. Vaai went okay too.
In the backs, just anonymous, the lot of them. It almost seems like it might be an NZR directive to have Goodhue play 12 at the crusaders, trying to develop a combination with mo'unga, and foster is sticking to that... unfortunately it is wrong. goodhue is a gun at centre, and he's being wasted.
as for refusing to bring webber on for the hopeless TJ last week, then dragging smith early... christ, make up your mind.

i guess this is what you get when you pick a coach who has never won anything. It was good to hear JK, another coach who hasn't won anything, get stuck in a bit. At least when JK couldn't coach for shit what he got was sacked, rather than promoted to the ABs job.

Well done Argentina, thoroughly deserved. Nico Sanchez runs a bit hot and cold, but when he's on, he really is world class. Combine that with 14 blokes tackling their arses off and it's a good recipe - that was a hell of a defensive effort.

Jesus, the McKenzie criticism is a bit over the top. As others have said he was involved in most of the tries, one bad error, and some seem to think he's worst on the field?
Meanwhile Rieko makes pretty much the same error, runs Reece out of space then throws a rank pass into touch, and he's best on the park?
The only difference I can see is that Caleb Clarke turned one of the errors into a try, but he seems to be getting a free pass...

Shit super season sure, but a good game last night.

Not really too sure what to make of that game.

They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.

Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.

The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.

Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.

So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.

Fucken yuck.

Last time I saw this much confidence here was just before the Aussies smashed us to bits.

Ireland are a good side, who lack depth at 10. We seem to think they're shit now because they were beaten by Japan and thumped by England before the WC. But both games no Sexton. You can't play 10 man rugby without a 10.
They whipped Scotland and looked good against Samoa - they're not a spent force and they've beaten us 2 out of last 3. The Dublin game was one which we targeted to get payback for the first loss, and we scored 9 points and were well beaten.
Now I see Coles in the Herald saying 'we haven't talked about what happened last time'. Sounds a bit too much like Cheika not worrying about the opposition to me.

As for us, our best forward is underdone, and our reserve scrummaging has looked a bit shaky. I don't think Cane is back to his best, and we lack the grunt to bend set defensive lines. We have beaten South Africa, and had a couple of pretty meaningless cakewalks vs minnows, that's all. There's obviously a lot of potential in the Mounga Barrett axis, but I don't consider it proven under pressure just yet, and we have inexperienced wings who we know will be targeted in the air. Our centre has been out injured and the 12-13 combo lacks match time together.
Underdogs, clearly.

Glad we have Owens compared to some other options, but he's been below his usual high standards this cup, letting too much go at the breakdown and offside line which will suit the Irish. He is however the least likely to give a panicky dodgy shit red card.

Interesting game, interesting comments.
Smith was good.
Mo'unga was mediocre, but he's a good player and will come right.
Goodhue played fine albeit not in his best position: defended very well, well positioned and nice hands to link for the try.
Ioane was poor. Very good as always once he caught the ball and ran with it, but unfortunately bad everything else. The bombed grounding was a shocker, and as others have mentioned, no surprise. He didn't pass when he should have to blow an overlap, and also bombed another try with the foot on the line but that didn't get called somehow. And he was the guy who squeezed in on defence instead of trusting the insides to give the Aussies their try. Of those 4 bad mistakes, 2 are wingers jobs, so no excuse. He's a good player, but that was not a game to remember.
Bridge was okay only. Not as good in the air as we'd like, good pass for the try, otherwise not involved enough which is supposed to be one of his strengths.
Jordie was okay out of position, not his fault he was picked there. That 22 reception was a shocker though.
MacKenzie was pretty good actually. More like the North vs South than the Chiefs version.

Moody was good.
Taylor was okay.
Tungafasi was okay, but I had hoped for more.
Tuipolotou was okay, but I had hoped for more.
Whitelock was good-ish, which seems to be about where he sits in his dotage. Lots of work in the ruck and tackle and solid lineouts.
Frizzell was fine, lots of tackling, and linked well for the try in the corner. Seems a bit weird to be copping flak from some of the same guys lauding Cane when Frizz had the more tackles in the first half.
Cane was mighty. Not sure he's a captain, but the performance did say 'follow me'.
Savea was poor I thought. A few good moments, but just nowhere near enough of them.

Coaching wise, well, fucking hopeless. Selecting 3 debutants on the bench alongside Perenara means Foster either was arrogant enough to think it would be in the bag by 60 minutes, or is just stupid and has chucked one of the positives of Hansen's regime in blooding new players one at a time surrounded by experience and established combinations.
Just pick Sotutu. He's good enough, so he's old enough. Savea was playing well enough to demand selection in the WC year, but I don't think he's done that this year, and there's no dropping Cane barring injury.
Barrett and Bridge, no no no. Jordie is a fullback. Bridge is fine, but if he's selected the other wing should be a bruiser like Clarke for a shit day in Wellington.
For those saying drop Goodhue, what the hell? He was fine in this game, he was our best in the WC loss, and let's not forget that ALB has had a shit super season at 12. Certainly his best position is centre, but dropping him would be crazy.
You'd think we would have had a plan for White after what he did to us last time, but apparently not.
Passive defensive line. We're sticking to that shit tactic eh. Nice.
Bugger all possession, another time-honoured tactic. Gotta love that continuity.

The reffing, as others have said, plenty let go both ways. Either side could point at missed decisions in the last few minutes that could have changed the result, but who cares really.

Well done to Dave Rennie, didn't really expect anything less given his history of making teams greater than the sum of the parts. If Faingaa hadn't played so badly I think the Aussies would have got the win they deserved. Also worth noting that they showed a bit of belief - Aussie sides of the recent past might well have crumbled after playing all the rugby for scant reward and then conceding points against the run of play.

fuck i've had a gutsful of this shit. there are people who need benefits, who don't rip the system off. but you put a photo of a big fat fluffybunny with a claim she eats one meal a day, what are most people going to think?
you boast about ripping nz taxpayers off, what do you expect nz taxpayers to think?

fucking idiots.

new zealand needs a viable left. plenty of shit is happening that needs to change, but there is just no pressure on the government because of the morons on the other side. look at something like the state of our rivers. that is something that the majority of people care about. there's an article on stuff about the 100% pure NZ tourist campaign showing someone drinking water from a river - which is pretty much never safe in nz. people from all over the political spectrum care about that, they care about the environment - the government's response has been to shift the 'swimmable' goalposts to outside world standards - which is a goddamned fucking disgrace. that is a huge opportunity for the greens, but instead they're boasting about ripping us all off. fucking hell, you wouldn't read about it.

i am gutted about this. you get another chance in 4 years at a world cup, but you never get this record back.

@machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nevorian said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Controversial opinon here, but I'm not convinced that Weber will be an improvement on TJP. We know that coming on against tired legs makes a halfback look better, and we've seen this back to the Marshall/Kelleher days. TJP is a quality halfback, who sometimes struggles to get his passes right.

That said, when he focusses on getting to the ruck and clearacne, he looks just fine ... and then brings a lot to the table.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if we're stoked to see TJ come on with 20ish to go ... and if Weber doesn't look quite as good against a fresh Bok pack.

Obviously hope to be proved wrong, and BW plays an absolute blinder!

We seem to have a lack of depth at halfback in NZ at the mo buy is it just because of the very high bar that A Smith has set for others to reach?

It's never been a great strength of New Zealand rugby, but what is infuriating is the other current candidates don't appear to be bothered by the disparity between their skills and his.

you see several videos on all the socials about how smith gets to training an hour or two before he needs to and does all this extra work on his pass, you dont see the same for the others...they quite possibly do, but if they dont it make you wonder

I know for sure TJ does, I've seen a heap of videos of his extra training. H did one when he he's attached to a bungy, so he has to fight to get to the ball and pass. Then the ball is in a tyre, then in 2 tyres on top of each other, 3, 4, 5. Looked fucking hard!

I don;t think there is anything but professionalism on those that get a good number of tests, but everyone has a skill ceiling, and micro improvements are only micro!

This kinda weirds me out. TJ is good in contact, good at digging the ball out and getting a pass away under pressure.
What he is crap at - and utter crap compared to smith - is delivering really consistent, accurate passes quickly from clean ball. Maybe he should practice that instead of what he's already good at?

@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@reprobate said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@reprobate said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@billy-tell yea fun as watching nz in lockdown...what a dumb comment

Not as fun as not getting home for my dads 70th. Or my cousins funeral. FFS as a kiwi citizen I’m cut off from my own country. I’m fully vaccinated but to come home, to my country, I’d have to go on a waiting list, to spend 2 weeks in a hotel. And not sure I can bring the wife, coz she’s not a nz citizen. How long does is this expected to go on for? So yeah I would find it ironic that after shutting nz off to its citizens the virus ends up taking hold anyway.

Do you not read the news mate? They laid out the plan for next year a few days ago.
If people like you had your way, then there'd be plenty of people whose dad's 70th would be dad's funeral instead.

what a fucking dick comment. uppercut yourself

Yeah it was a dick comment, I shouldn't have put it that way.
Both things are true though - with no quarantine we would have had widespread community cases and old people would have been dying. And the government did announce (fucking finally) a plan of some sort for opening borders and reducing quarantine next year.

the "fear" for us living outside the Country who would love to come back and see everyone is, those plans look a bit shaky when you put them next to government's actual responses

I have the same fear in Australia. The "plan" is one thing, but when/if vaccination levels hit that target, outbreaks are still going to happen, and it looks for all money like the gameplan we are seeing today will be followed all over again.

People are not allowed to die of/with Covid in Australasia. Which sounds way harsher than what i actually mean. This virus isn't going away. You cannot vaccinate yourself to zero covid. And no matter how much they say it, our governments are working towards zero covid again.

we, who would like a different approach, don't actually want old people to die. Even though i personally believe lots will anyway.

The recent announcement was the first sign of a realisation of the need to re-open once everyone has had a chance to vaccinate. Here that is for anyone who hasn't seen it : https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-levels-and-updates/latest-updates/government-sets-out-plan-to-reconnect-new-zealanders-to-the-world/
Took long enough for them to say anything, but I'm sure they know it can't go on forever - and full opportunity to vaccinate is both the logical point to change policy, and their 'out' as it makes it the non-vaccinated individual's responsibility.

@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@reprobate said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@billy-tell yea fun as watching nz in lockdown...what a dumb comment

Not as fun as not getting home for my dads 70th. Or my cousins funeral. FFS as a kiwi citizen I’m cut off from my own country. I’m fully vaccinated but to come home, to my country, I’d have to go on a waiting list, to spend 2 weeks in a hotel. And not sure I can bring the wife, coz she’s not a nz citizen. How long does is this expected to go on for? So yeah I would find it ironic that after shutting nz off to its citizens the virus ends up taking hold anyway.

Do you not read the news mate? They laid out the plan for next year a few days ago.
If people like you had your way, then there'd be plenty of people whose dad's 70th would be dad's funeral instead.

what a fucking dick comment. uppercut yourself

Yeah it was a dick comment, I shouldn't have put it that way.
Both things are true though - with no quarantine we would have had widespread community cases and old people would have been dying. And the government did announce (fucking finally) a plan of some sort for opening borders and reducing quarantine next year.

@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

@billy-tell yea fun as watching nz in lockdown...what a dumb comment

Not as fun as not getting home for my dads 70th. Or my cousins funeral. FFS as a kiwi citizen I’m cut off from my own country. I’m fully vaccinated but to come home, to my country, I’d have to go on a waiting list, to spend 2 weeks in a hotel. And not sure I can bring the wife, coz she’s not a nz citizen. How long does is this expected to go on for? So yeah I would find it ironic that after shutting nz off to its citizens the virus ends up taking hold anyway.

Do you not read the news mate? They laid out the plan for next year a few days ago.
If people like you had your way, then there'd be plenty of people whose dad's 70th would be dad's funeral instead.

What a clusterfuck. The amount of noise we hear about the feelings of our half-dozen or so trannies being hurt, and that's 19 million Afghani women who are fucked.

@mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:

@reprobate said in Housing hornets' nest:

@voodoo and yet still plenty of property owners will argue that nothing is wrong and how dare the government intervene. Ignoring that central and local government / reserve bank policies are the major cause.
Just a shame everyone in parliament owns plenty of property, or we might have seen some action taken 10 years+ ago.

how do you fix it though?

You can't just arbitrarily devalue everyone's property, then you end up with a mortgage higher than the value of the house, and the bank comes knocking
Increasing interest rates only hurts people trying to get in to the market in the first place. and smashes the poor.
Maybe getting rid of interest only, but will that do much except probably increase rents? Especially if there is a shortage of supply?

Banks can be and are regulated. Those regulations can be and are changed. If they've lent based on a value they've given a property, then why not make them stick to that value. Then sure, someone has overpaid, but they're still just paying the mortgage, and they still have a house. For anyone who owns one home that they live in - the value is semi-meaningless unless you are leaving, because you sell and buy in the same market.

My posts tend to get regarded as being pro first home buyer, but I don't really a give a rats about them specifically. When the DTIs come in, they should apply to them. Don't let people borrow so much when houses are so over-valued, it's crazy. And this then makes it harder and harder to do anything about it without fucking people up. The more you wait, the more people you fuck up - and successive governments on both sides have had no balls at all, and they've created and exacerbated this mess.

Supply needs to be addressed. But there are still houses advertised in NZ that make no mention of even living in the house as being an option: Land bank (what a fluffybunny of a term that is), invest, subdivide, develop. You can have a shortage of supply without a massive price increase if demand is limited too. If it's not attractive as an investment and people can't borrow through the roof, then less people want/can buy those houses - then prices stay down, ROI for landlords is fine and they don't crank rents etc.
I just don't think it is as complicated as people make it out to be.

@arhs said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:

Geez - do posters realise it is a 23 player game these days and the All Blacks learned over a decade ago that a lack of a plan B at RWC could have them out. Fern posters have gone on and on about not having plan B's too,

So, the current coaches are addressing this by training for scenarios where they lose a key player through injury or a card early, and making sure that the players slotting into another position can do so relatively seamlessly. Seems intelligent to me and a big tick for this regime. You can only have 8 on the bench. I have assumed that Jordie is seen as potential cover at 12 this week, else they would have most likely promoted Quinn Tupaea. There will be a planned scenario for the loss of any player.

The AB's will likely have a pecking order of 4 players minimum for any jersey number, and will do their best to build experience of each of those candidates in that jersey within the RWC leadup campaign. I see nothing wrong with that, and am happy for us not to be winning by 50 points with out best 15 playing 80 minutes every week, if we are progressing forward our troops for the RWC battle. Then, they will pick the best 23 players to deal with whatever the opposition are expected to throw at them that week, and will continue their admirable philosophy (big tick for current regime) of not picking players who are injured, but seeing it as an opportunity to further develop an understudy in preparation for what may come.

All these posts wanting Foster to be dumped for not keeping players in their preferred jersey number at all times would seem to based on nasty agendas and not on reason....

Except they're not doing this. They're picking Jordie Barrett because he deserves to be picked as a fullback on form, but then they also have to pick Beauden, McKenzie and Mo'unga, and Jordan. So then they're playing him on the wing because he 'deserves' a spot. The bench balance is fucked with 2 Barretts there.
The boks with 6 forwards on the bench in the WC were seeing it as a 23 man game, our dullards are not.

@voodoo and yet still plenty of property owners will argue that nothing is wrong and how dare the government intervene. Ignoring that central and local government / reserve bank policies are the major cause.
Just a shame everyone in parliament owns plenty of property, or we might have seen some action taken 10 years+ ago.

McKenzie is pretty good positionally in general I reckon. Better than Jordie, though he's not bad either.
He's small, and he runs sideways when nothing is on. His decisions when things are on, are generally good. If nothing is on and you're a midget, buying some time by running sideways isn't actually the worst option, even though it is ugly as fuuuuck to watch.
Fact is Foster seems set on the dual playmaker, and McKenzie probably is the best of them in that role.

@booboo I see the theory, but will believe the practice when i see it. if you have a half chance to run with a winger standing a bit deep, and a half chance to peel off 40m with a kick and get the lineout with a winger standing a bit shallow, then lots of people are going for the kick.