This thread has given me some serious PTSD and I’m having flashbacks to 2003!

But seriously, and putting aside the hyperbole (eg Hansen = Satan / Hansen = Jesus), I will look very favourably upon the Hansen era and I do think he has taken the All Blacks to another level, enhanced the legacy and all that other jazz. Simply put, the rugby we played between 2012 to Chicago 2016 was revolutionary and we may never see any team play with such skill consistently ever again. Yes, he’s had the cattle to do it, but his time steering the ship made much better use of the cattle, IMO, than anyone before him (I still think Henry didn’t get as much out of his team as he should have).

That being said, I think Hansen held on too long - he should have gone after the Lions as planned. Since we won in 2015, we’ve obviously had a lot of bad milestones - losses to Ireland, drawn Lions series etc - but we’ve also seen a drop off in skill levels, consistency, muddled selections, poor game plans, lack of calm under pressure and - more worrying than anything - a resignation or “c’est la vie” attitude in defeat. To me, it just looked like Shag had lost that absolute hunger to win and it seems to have rubbed off on his players.

Similarly, I’d argue he’s become a bit bored and overconfident with all the easy wins and has fallen into the habit of tinkering unnecessarily.

Every team at this Cup has a very clear style of how they play. Except for last week, we on the other hand have looked confused and unclear about which plan or style we are playing with in any given match.

I know this isn’t the match thread, but I’d like to make a couple of observations about the match today, which are demonstrative of the issues since 2016 that can be firmly directed at the coaching:

1. We looked completely surprised that England started so well and made life very difficult for us - this was evident in the poor decision making and option taking from the start to the end of the match.
2. We played with a game plan last week that would have beaten any team in the world if executed well. Yet, we shelved it completely today and went with the side to side shit from the opening whistle, together with stupid options like putting up bombs in their 22. The only time we put together some pods and ran at their forwards, Reece had acres of space, ran into the corner and we scored an easy try from the ensuing lineout. In short, we played into their hands, throughout that match.

@Hooroo said in Happiness Scale:

This thread is kind of therapeutic. Not because there are those that have had it tougher, not at all, but because we (as men) are speaking so freely about it.

It's something that our Dads probably never got to do and likely held it in.

I salute any of you that have managed to take action because of this thread.

I once told my dad I was feeling a bit anxious about my financial situation and that it was affecting my relationship. He called me a poof and told me to harden up. He then swiftly moved the conversation on to the rugby. Good times.

Good thread.

I have a great life. My wife is beautiful, kindhearted and good fun. My wife and I both have great jobs with a decent amount of flexibility, intellectual challenge and very good remuneration. We have a great apartment and I have a nice car. We never want for anything and eat out at nice places regularly. COVID-permitting, we can travel anywhere we want and stay pretty much wherever we want when we get there. We live near the beach in a part of the world where the sun shines all year round. We pay fuck all in taxes. I play golf every weekend with a great group of mates.

If you'd asked me 5 years ago what my perfect life would like, that's pretty much it.

But, to be honest, I'm feeling dissatisfied, restless, irritable and a little helpless. Wife and I are and have been for the past 2 year trying to start a family with very little success. The clock is ticking for her and so we have gone the IVF route, which has taken a real physical toll on her and even more of an emotional toll on us both. We've basically got one more roll of the dice before we give up and live our lives as a childless couple, the hardest part of which is watching my wife come to terms with losing a large part of her "purpose" in life. It's difficult for us both right now to see our many blessings, because the truth is we'd give up almost all of them just to have our own little family.

Still working out what this all actually means in terms of my overall happiness, but a few thoughts include (a) that happiness is a completely relative concept, (b) I may have been wrong about at truly makes me happy, and (c) your own happiness can be massively influenced by the happiness (or otherwise) of others.

@junior said in Happiness Scale:

Good thread.

I have a great life. My wife is beautiful, kindhearted and good fun. My wife and I both have great jobs with a decent amount of flexibility, intellectual challenge and very good remuneration. We have a great apartment and I have a nice car. We never want for anything and eat out at nice places regularly. COVID-permitting, we can travel anywhere we want and stay pretty much wherever we want when we get there. We live near the beach in a part of the world where the sun shines all year round. We pay fuck all in taxes. I play golf every weekend with a great group of mates.

If you'd asked me 5 years ago what my perfect life would like, that's pretty much it.

But, to be honest, I'm feeling dissatisfied, restless, irritable and a little helpless. Wife and I are and have been for the past 2 year trying to start a family with very little success. The clock is ticking for her and so we have gone the IVF route, which has taken a real physical toll on her and even more of an emotional toll on us both. We've basically got one more roll of the dice before we give up and live our lives as a childless couple, the hardest part of which is watching my wife come to terms with losing a large part of her "purpose" in life. It's difficult for us both right now to see our many blessings, because the truth is we'd give up almost all of them just to have our own little family.

Still working out what this all actually means in terms of my overall happiness, but a few thoughts include (a) that happiness is a completely relative concept, (b) I may have been wrong about at truly makes me happy, and (c) your own happiness can be massively influenced by the happiness (or otherwise) of others.

With the thread having back to life, it's prompted a lot of reflection and a decision to re-read my first post to see what's changed and to see if I feel any different.

In my life, nothing really has changed. I still have the objectively charmed life described above (slightly more money on account of a mid-year salary increase). But, if I'm honest, I am even more miserable now than I was then.

Our last round(s) of IVF were unfortunately unsuccessful. This did not come as a great surprise - in fact, we had both resigned ourselves to this being inevitable, while at the same time being committed not to give up so long as we had the physical, financial and emotional ability to continue on the off-chance that we would be lucky enough to be blessed with a child (something we both really wanted).

The whole process was really such an emotionally draining experience - building up the determination and optimism to continue despite previous failure and the odds stacked against us, only to fail again - that I completely detached myself from the experience as a coping mechanism. As a result, I am completely lost as to the timelines, what happened when, what the outcome was on each occasion, the discussions had with and advice received from doctors etc.

Anyway, I think it must be about 6ish months since we stopped. Since then, we've both put the blinkers on and buried our heads in the sand. I think we are both still processing the whole awful experience, the outcome and what this means for the future. We therefore don't really discuss this together, and I don't know if we are even ready individually or as a couple to do so. I don't think I am. My wife may be, as demonstrated by her opening up to certain people over drinks at her work Xmas party while completely writing herself off (something which upset me quite a lot, given that the people concerned were not friends and have big mouths).

We had previously discussed what our "Plan C" might be for having kids in the inevitable case that IVF didn't work - we don't anymore. I don't think we currently have the energy or inclination to go through the ball ache of, for example, adoption or egg donation or even to talk about it. I don't think I even want kids anymore - probably more of a "if I can't have them, I don't want them" reaction in reality. Still, seeing friends pregnant or with young children makes me feel sick. Being around friends and their kids - particularly very young ones - is galling. Half the conversations they want to have is either about or hi-jacked by their kids.

The last 12 months at work have been tough. It's provided a convenient pretext to avoid thinking or talking about the personal things that need processing. But it's also considerably added to the malaise, as I've basically missed out on Xmas and New Years due to being so busy since at least October. Added to that is the fact that we couldn't travel either to her home or mine for Xmas because of work, which has made matters worse.

We have some light at the end of the tunnel, with a chance of a decent break in February. But all I want to do is go home and see my friends and family, which seems unlikely to happen. At the very least the chances of it getting canned at the last minute due to border closures seems high. Best case scenario it is going to be a logistical nightmare and cost a fuck ton of money.

You tell yourself that the reason you work hard is to have a nice life and build something for your future and your family. Well, if your future doesn't involve kids, what is the point of working your c#nt off now? I can still have the life I currently live by working about 75% as hard as I currently do.

If you can't use the rare times you get a break from work to travel and visit your friends and family, again what is the point of working your c#nt off in those other times? I would have much more free time and flexibility to take holidays at more convenient times by working about 75% as hard as I currently do.

Waking up today and thinking over the match again, as well as reading some of the comments from Foster and the players, has made me go from being angry to simply depressed. I am depressed mainly because this team is so clearly performing below their obvious abilities.

I am a little bit sick of hearing or reading people say we just don't have the cattle any more. It's right, we don't have 2005 to 2016 quality and depth that we got used to. But we do have:

1. Two of the best 3 AB locks of all time, one who has played 130-odd tests and the other who has played nearly 100 tests and at one point was the World Rugby Player of the Year.
2. Absolutely ridiculous depth in our loose forwards that should be the envy of practically every other team in the World.
3. A 100-plus test halfback, the greatest in AB history, at various times of the last 10 years the best halfback in the world, and one of the greatest passes of all time
4. Stupidly talented 10s, one of whom is a 100-test veteran and 2x World Rugby Player of the Year, while the other is 6x Super Rugby title winner.
5. Absolutely ridiculous depth in our midfield that should be the envy of practically every other team in the World.
6. As is usual, a multitude of back 3 options all of which are seriously potent attacking threats (and in Jordan, close to the most exciting young talent in world rugby right now).

And so what I find so depressing is that we have a coaching team that can't put together a game plan to get consistent performances out of that collection of obvious talent. Now, clearly our tight 5 is gash - hence why I haven't mentioned it - but that's most of my point: a decent coaching team would find a way to maximise the above strengths while minimising the weaknesses. Our coaching team does neither and its farking depressing

@barbarian said in Red cards:

I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.

But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).

I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.

At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.

This is probably the best post on this issue so far and clearly written from the practical perspective of someone who has played the game (presently or at least in the recent past by the look of things).

The objective is an entirely noble one, but the means adopted by WR go too far. You simply cannot treat a marginally high tackle, caused by a timing issue (e.g. a late, high speed change of angle) in the same way your treat out-and-out foul play.

It's just entirely unfair to the players, most importantly.

There will be a red card during one of the knockout games in this tournament and it will cost a team 4 years of hard work and maybe even some careers. How on earth is that fair punishment for a purely accidental, fractionally mis-timed tackle?

Edit: our only hope is that the unfortunate recipients of a red card in such a situation is England - only then will there be a sufficiently critical mass of whinging that WR will actually take a sensible approach to this issue.

@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

I know Lomu wasn't a complete player by any stretch, but his running game was so much better than anyone else that has played the game it's not even funny. Without exaggerating he was probably about 5 times more effective with ball in hand than any other player. People had nightmares about trying to defend against him. The combination of pace and power he had were basically inhuman. Has to be in the top 5 given the way he could break games apart with such ease.

Also, and I think @mariner4life summed it up well earlier, being the "greatest" or even a "great" All Black goes far beyond mere rugby playing ability (although that's most of it). It also includes what impact he had on the jersey and the legacy - did he add to it and, if so, how much? Jonah's impact on the jersey and the legacy are almost - almost - unparalleled. He's the benchmark by which we judge all of our wingers - he's why no-one rates George Bridge,

You've also got to say that the guy made huge physical sacrifices for the jersey. We quite rightly talk of McCaw's foot, Fitzy's ear, Pinetree's arm and Buck's testicle. But, let's not forget that Jonah played with a life-threatening and debilitating kidney disease and made several comebacks are bouts of dialysis and a fucking kidney transplant.

Anyone who doesn't have in in their Top 5 - because he was slow on the turn or some other nit-picking bullshit - can seriously go and eat a bag full of dicks!

@kiwi_expat said in Blues v Hurricanes:

I'd say the reason for Blackwell being continually selected is because he's a key leader in the group, he's a senior player, he was the Hurricanes player of the season in 2019, was pretty outstanding in Super Rugby Aotearoa last year too. Also isn't he the Wellington Lions captain?

Welcome to the 'Fern, Mrs Blackwell

@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool :

@westcoastie said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool :

@kev said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool :

@No-Quarter you have to wrap your arms, you can’t lead with your shoulder. Have to stand in front and let them hit you, or let them go past and tackle from side.

push the ball carrier into the turf and fall on them.

I think the confusion stems from setting yourself low initially, then he falls , it’s hard to mark adjustments , especially if you are a big bloke

Exactly, you just cannot win with the way the rules are being implemented at the moment.

Yesterday, the problem was that Lavanini was stood up too high and, therefore, his shoulder was always at risk of crashing into the chin of Farrell (a much shorter man). So, the answer to that problem is to get the body height low and make sure contact is low (i.e. below the shoulders).

Today, we've seen Nepo and Ofa do what they should - set themselves low to ensure contact below the shoulders. However, as soon as they initiate their movement to tackle, the attacking player goes lower, basically removing any possibility to make contact below the shoulders - i.e. completely removing the target. So, the answer to that problem is to keep the body upright. But then, we just end up in Lavanini territory again!

So, as a defending player, you're buggered either way.

World Rugby really has to re-think this. There's got to be a bit of an onus on the attacking player to also protect his head. You simply cannot tell me that clever players and coaches will look at the past couple of days and make a tactical move to carry low and lead with the head.

If attacking coaches and players themselves are not going to be worried about their noggins, then why should defending teams be...?

@antipodean said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:

@nzzp said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:

@Nepia said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:

I actually thought that was pretty good, especially after everyone complaining about The Breakdown in the other thread.

They asked some good questions and I thought Foxy answered them pretty well even if he was a bit agitated.

Definitely defensive though - leading about 'you can't want the ABs to win all the time, and also want a contest - if we have a contest sometimes we lose'. I dunno, as i said, seemed very defensive and agitated.

I got the impression he's sick of the attitude permeating NZ Rugby public that has grown accustomed to unrealistic expectations because of an outlier team even amongst the All Blacks' record.

My issue is that his attitude seems to be "the NZ public has to understand ... there's a lot we're trying to do that the NZ public doesn't understand etc.". My attitude is, well explain to us what we don't know. Tell us what you're thinking is - even after the fact. Maybe then we'll be able to see why certain things were done a certain way and we'll be less critical. But, this don't ask, don't tell stuff just isn't going to cut it with a rugby public who, for the most part, know a bit about the game.

@NTA said in Rennie Sacked, Eddie In!:

Pommy guy at work was saying he still knows people in the pro ranks back home, who can't praise Eddie enough. Don't believe the beat up about him being unpopular, or words to that effect.

But said work mate, who is a junior coach here now, is conflicted:

On one hand, Jones will help boost Rugby here and get people interested again. That's handy when you're involved in the game.

On the other, the match up against England at RWC has him very nervous...

I might be wrong, but the issue is not necessarily that his popularity amongst his players and peers wanes over time, it's that his ability to get the best out of them on the pitch does. So, while he might still be popular with players and people in English rugby circles, he hasn't been able to get the best out of them nearly 4 years now. It was the same last time around with the Wallabies. There was no issue around player disharmony - it was all to do with waning results on the pitch and his inability / refusal to develop a functional tight 5.

@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:

@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:

@mariner4life ah didnt see that...that'd be great, but I dont see that happening (in fact, cant see most of that happening, WR seems to hate the game...)

Would also see a return to smaller more mobile athletic locks I reckon.

or really tall ones!

oh dude absolutely none of that would ever happen. It's just the shit i like

real rugby heads, you know, the "game they play in heaven" fuckheads, love to crap on about rugby being a constant contest. It becomes less of contest every year IMO. scrums and lineouts are rarely turned over. rucks are less of a contest than ever. mauls are not a contest. Remove a heap of modern rugby's contrivances and just maybe the game opens up again

The only way any of this ever happens if we suddenly became the best in the world at all the things we hate about rugby (and won) and the NH teams all became the guardians of running rugby (and lost). None of this is happening ever. Ever.

@MN5 said in Royal drama:

@Kiwiwomble said in Royal drama:

Harry said he was “hurt” when he joined William’s school and William asked him to pretend not to know each other.

....did he even think this lie through before writing it down? he wants people to believe Will wanted to convince people two of the most famous siblings in the world..."didn;t know each other"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/royals/300780413/prince-harry-tells-cbs-anderson-cooper-camilla-is-a-dangerous-villain

My older boy did that to his brother on his first day of school too.

I told him to pull his head in and stop being a fluffybunny.

I think the Royals need better parental role models.

Doesn't every older sibling do that to their younger sibling...?

@No-Quarter said in Royal drama:

@MN5 said in Royal drama:

@MajorRage said in Royal drama:

@MN5 said in Royal drama:

@Bones said in Royal drama:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Royal drama:

@canefan said in Royal drama:

If they really want to make a point, give all the money to charity.

I don't even have a problem with their making money about their experience as Royals. It's the way they're behaving like angry, childish divorcees with no care for the hurt they are causing which gets me.

Or does it.

jennifer-newton  /  Dec 17, 2022  /  Royals

Charles is 'unexpectedly reassuring' despite 'Victor Meldrew' moments - expert

Today marks 100 days since King Charles became monarch - and according to historian Tessa Dunlop his accession has been "relatively smooth" despite it "never being destined for it to be easy" and drama from Prince Harry and Meghan Markle

How come his paedo brother doesn’t get mentioned when it comes to “drama”?

Because that situation has been dealt with, perhaps?

Harry is really coming across like a complete bitch. And yes, clearly royal inbreeding has had a strong part to play on his intelligence.

Fair enough. I don’t follow this stuff as closely as others but I always found it strange that they seemed more villainous than a paedo in the eyes of the British press.

So Harry killed 25 enemies in battle but was “terrified” of a scrap with his bro ? Something doesn’t add up there.

I'm also far from convinced the peado situation was "dealt with" to a satisfactory level. Seems odd that a couple of narcissists generate so much more coverage than actual disgusting criminals, but that seems to be the society we live in these days.

A cynical view would be that these couple of narcissists are providing a very convenient distraction from said paedo...

@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:

@Stargazer said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:

I'm convinced that had Scott Robertson been the All Blacks coach, he'd gotten more out of RM (and other players). He'd developed a game plan that uses players' strengths and would have added to those strengths. It's unfortunate that it's now very unlikely that we'll ever get to see RM play in a black jersey under Robertson.

I think it's a tremendous loss to New Zealand rugby, but I don't agree that razor would've got him to be a much better Test player. The space and mismatch that Richie enjoys at SR doesn't exist at the higher level.

Richie Mo'unga is probably the worst case of the late Hansen and Foster era lost generation of All Blacks - players chronically mismanaged and mucked around with to the point they have not been able to consistently perform to their potential on the international stage.

It's not often you see a player so actively disadvantaged & undermined by tactics, selection and team management but it feels like that is what we have had with Mo'unga's handling over the last five years.

Mo'unga's career started with Hansen actively talking his performances down and clearly reluctant to move away from his preferred Barrett. If this is the end of Mo'unga in Black, hopefully he gets 12 months with the trust and freedom to run things himself unimpeded. If he does, I think we will realize what the AB management has wasted for the last five years and what we will miss in future.

Mo'unga has still shone but so much of his career he has been undermined by selection, tactics and dual playmakers. As Mo'unga has sadly found out time and time again, It’s pretty tough to drive a car when an overbearing passenger keeps clutching at the steering wheel from the back.

Hopefully he can have a great next twelve months in black and who knows, we may see him back on his return under a different coaching regime.

It feels strange to say this about a 100-test AB, but I wonder if BB has been a net negative for the team since 2016 when he took over running the cutter. That is, to fit his freakish skills into the team, and indeed to give him as many opportunities as possible to exploit them during that period, we may have sidelined players better suited to the overall on field management of the team, such Cruden and then Mounga.

@MajorRage said in Australia v South Africa:

@MN5 said in Australia v South Africa:

Ordinarily I’m one of the first to criticise the fuck you bloody crowd but when it’s a well respected and world class ex player I tend to pay attention.

Sehwag makes an excellent point here

Although I agree with him the ability of Indian cricket to always somehow make themselves the victim is quite impressive.

The South African rugby fans of cricket

@Bones said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@dogmeat England match? Absolutely bizarre to blame the ref when England got given every chance to win as well as kicking a goal Wilkinson would have been proud of.

I was just amused how far out of reality Neville is. It definitely helps paint a picture in other areas....

He's the most reputable football pundit in England, which says a lot of course...

@MiketheSnow said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

Terrible coaching from Southgate

Rashford should have had 30 at least

Agreed. Sara and Henderson also should have stayed on as they were both owning that right side.

@Bones said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@booboo said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@canefan said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

Did Harry miss a pen? He's usually so reliable, but he was facing his club captain in Lloris, who's probably faced him more than anyone else

Hoofed it over

Wow that's not his usual play. Nerves

Hoofed it over about 3 goals.

Great effort by Rashford, gets that 6 inches lower and it's going into a defender's head anyway.

What the fuck was the point in bringing on the invisible Sterling before Rashford?

Particularly when Saka was the most threatening player on the pitch.

@ACT-Crusader said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@junior said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

@KiwiPie said in FIFA World Cup 2022:

That was a pen all day - when someone chops back and you leave your foot there.

Fantastic free kick routine to pull off in the last chance saloon.

Given who the Dutch had on the field they should have carried on lumping it forward and pinned Argentina back - deserved to lose before pens given the chances that Argentina had.

Yes, really odd the way that, having taken control of the match by lumping it forward to their big units, the Dutch completely shelved that tactic during extra time.

Credit to the Dutch for their late comeback, but Argies deservedly won - much better throughout the match, save for the last 10 mins or so of normal time where they completely lost their heads.

How can you say that when the game was decided by penalty kicks, nothing more nothing less.

Because they took their penalty kicks much better...?