RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool B)
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@Frank said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MrDenmore said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow and there you are. But don’t bother yourself with the effort of dealing with the argument. Just strike your weasel poses
And here come the insults right on cue.
How do you suggest the defender stop the attacking player when the attacker goes really low, close to the line, and he (the attacker) leads with his head and neck?
Lead with the goggles?
Seriously, I feel sorry for the refs. They've been told to make decisions using rules/guidelines which are at times almost impossible to rule on.
It's essentially a lottery on many calls which could wreck a knockout game and ain't fair on players or refs.
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
If a player is charging head first with his head around waist height it is very difficult to effect a tackle without contact to the head. Even more so if the player ducks down late in the piece. I fail to see how you can tackle him around the midriff in that situation.
Players falling or ducking into tackles used to be seen as a mitigating factor for obvious reasons. I'm amazed they've abandoned that and are now YC'ing any contact to the head from a arm or shoulder.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
Is he though Mike??? Is he????
I've seen players make 3-4m of ground with the ball in that position, are defenders supposed to just watch them now?
Its such a daft argument to suggest that there is a certain running position that attackers can assume that makes them illegal to tackle
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:The player is going to ground.
Fair point but the whole thing has opened a can of worms.
We'll end up with players being carded for going to ground too quickly, or to milk a penalty/card or in a manner which may cause injury to themselves
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
I would love to see this magic trick, make 120kg in motion disappear. No way he could have pulled out of the tackle in the time between the player running normal then dropping their head.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
He's not, though, Mike because he's not tackled and will simply get up and keep going. In fact, I've seen in this RWC a worrying trend of players getting up and going again after the "tackle" (many times once a ruck has formed) because of this.
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
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That was a good game for us really.
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BBBR had a run and looked pretty good for 30 minutes.
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ALB confirmed he is in stellar form
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The team scrambled well on defence
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We were under pressure for a while
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We were able to change strategy at half time
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No injuries, and probably no citings
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Jordie showed he is maturing and can play with poise if required
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11 tries.
It's all good fellas. Couldn't ask for much more than that.
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@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:This was the 12th time New Zealand have scored 70 or more points in a Rugby World Cup game. All other teams combined have only done so 13 times.
So we’re still behind the rest of the world. Appalling by the ABs.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:This was the 12th time New Zealand have scored 70 or more points in a Rugby World Cup game. All other teams combined have only done so 13 times.
So we’re still behind the rest of the world. Appalling by the ABs.
SHAG OUT!!!!
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
Are you serious? The only difference is that there's two arms swinging instead of one.
If you're happy with that - which you seem to be - then presumably the only issue in both Nepo's and Ofa's cases was that they only got one arm around the neck instead of both...? I'm sorry, Mike, but that's just fucking bonkers, mate!
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
Are you serious? The only difference is that there's two arms swinging instead of one.
If you're happy with that - which you seem to be - then presumably the only issue in both Nepo's and Ofa's cases was that they only got one arm around the neck instead of both...? I'm sorry, Mike, but that's just fucking bonkers, mate!
Deadly.
I was taught to tackle with my shoulder. The arms were used to wrap around the body to stop further movement of the ball carrier.
If you can't see a problem with the first point of contact in a 'tackle' being the defender's outstretched arm (singular) swinging into the ball carrier's head then that would explain our difference of opinion on the matter.
PS You're going to have be very skilled to swing both arms to the head simultaneously
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
Are you serious? The only difference is that there's two arms swinging instead of one.
If you're happy with that - which you seem to be - then presumably the only issue in both Nepo's and Ofa's cases was that they only got one arm around the neck instead of both...? I'm sorry, Mike, but that's just fucking bonkers, mate!
Deadly.
I was taught to tackle with my shoulder. The arms were used to wrap around the body to stop further movement of the ball carrier.
If you can't see a problem with the first point of contact in a 'tackle' being the defender's outstretched arm (singular) swinging into the ball carrier's head then that would explain our difference of opinion on the matter.
PS You're going to have be very skilled to swing both arms to the head simultaneously
Mate, so was every single rugby player before 2017. Now, you're looking at a card if you lead with the shoulder and don't have your arms up and in line with the body.
I obviously do have a problem with a swinging arm to the head. But, as I've said repeatedly in my posts above (which you've somewhat obtusely chosen to ignore, instead moving the debate onto swinging arms generally), it becomes difficult not to have a swinging arm to the head when (a) the defending player has lowered his body height to ensure low contact in line with current directives, and (b) has his arms outstretched in anticipation of wrapping the tackled player in line with current directives, but (c) fractionally before impact, the attacking player dives down at knee-level, below the body height of the defending player, and thus (d) ensures that any contact - with either shoulder or arms - will inevitably be "high".
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@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:This was the 12th time New Zealand have scored 70 or more points in a Rugby World Cup game. All other teams combined have only done so 13 times.
So we’re still behind the rest of the world. Appalling by the ABs.
SHAG OUT!!!!
Yep. And time to come home Warren, Joe and Jamie...
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
Are you serious? The only difference is that there's two arms swinging instead of one.
If you're happy with that - which you seem to be - then presumably the only issue in both Nepo's and Ofa's cases was that they only got one arm around the neck instead of both...? I'm sorry, Mike, but that's just fucking bonkers, mate!
Deadly.
I was taught to tackle with my shoulder. The arms were used to wrap around the body to stop further movement of the ball carrier.
If you can't see a problem with the first point of contact in a 'tackle' being the defender's outstretched arm (singular) swinging into the ball carrier's head then that would explain our difference of opinion on the matter.
PS You're going to have be very skilled to swing both arms to the head simultaneously
Mate, so was every single rugby player before 2017. Now, you're looking at a card if you lead with the shoulder and don't have your arms up and in line with the body.
I obviously do have a problem with a swinging arm to the head. But, as I've said repeatedly in my posts above (which you've somewhat obtusely chosen to ignore, instead moving the debate onto swinging arms generally), it becomes difficult not to have a swinging arm to the head when (a) the defending player has lowered his body height to ensure low contact in line with current directives, and (b) has his arms outstretched in anticipation of wrapping the tackled player in line with current directives, but (c) fractionally before impact, the attacking player dives down at knee-level, below the body height of the defending player, and thus (d) ensures that any contact - with either shoulder or arms - will inevitably be "high".
Didn't think I had to clarify the first bit but
...tackle with my shoulder with both arms ahead of my shoulder and head in a pincer position ready to wrap around the ball carrier to stop further movement
And I didn't obtusely choose to ignore what you'd written.
World Rugby has directed the refs to penalise any tackle where the tackler makes contact with the ball carrier's neck or head.
There are mitigating factors which increase or decrease the severity of penalty.
When the ball carrier suddenly drops their body position prior to being tackled it's very difficult - to almost impossible - for the tackler to readjust their position.
If you set up for a tackle and your point of impact is aimed at the shins of the ball carrier then you have a massive margin of error if the ball carrier readjusts their body position fractionally before contact.
If you set up and your point of impact is aimed at the nipple then you have a very small margin of error if the ball carrier readjusts their body position fractionally before contact.
It's perceived as unfair at the moment - especially if one of your team is the transgressor - but ultimately it's a technique and timing issue.
There are hundreds of tackles during a match and thankfully we're talking about 1-3 incidents per match.
