RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool B)
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Frank said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MrDenmore said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow and there you are. But don’t bother yourself with the effort of dealing with the argument. Just strike your weasel poses
And here come the insults right on cue.
How do you suggest the defender stop the attacking player when the attacker goes really low, close to the line, and he (the attacker) leads with his head and neck?
I was taught to 'tackle' the ball in those circumstances.
If the ball carrier is stretching out with the ball ahead of his head you aim for the arms and ball in an effort to dislodge it from the ball carrier's grasp forcing a knock on.
If the ball carrier has the ball tucked up against his chest or under his arm you aim for where the ball is in an effort to dislodge it from the ball carrier's grasp forcing a knock on.
What if the player leads with their head and the ball is inline with their head?
What do you mean, he's kissing it in the act of scoring? Or it's balanced against his ear?
I mean the players torso is at or past horizontal so the head is blocking the ball.
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@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Frank said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MrDenmore said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow and there you are. But don’t bother yourself with the effort of dealing with the argument. Just strike your weasel poses
And here come the insults right on cue.
How do you suggest the defender stop the attacking player when the attacker goes really low, close to the line, and he (the attacker) leads with his head and neck?
I was taught to 'tackle' the ball in those circumstances.
If the ball carrier is stretching out with the ball ahead of his head you aim for the arms and ball in an effort to dislodge it from the ball carrier's grasp forcing a knock on.
If the ball carrier has the ball tucked up against his chest or under his arm you aim for where the ball is in an effort to dislodge it from the ball carrier's grasp forcing a knock on.
What if the player leads with their head and the ball is inline with their head?
What do you mean, he's kissing it in the act of scoring? Or it's balanced against his ear?
I mean the players torso is at or past horizontal so the head is blocking the ball.
Then you hit them as hard as you can in the midriff and hope they buckle and cough up the ball.
If they don't, hold on to the ball, and score that's still a better result than giving away a possible penalty try and YC.
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow ‘But this is how the WC is being refereed,’ he said, as if that was the final arbiter in the matter, as if money and the market had no bearing on the outcome. This World Cup is a car crash in the waiting. The lawyers are running the show....for now. The bankers and the broadcasters they serve will have the final say.
Dude you're getting boring
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Tu'ungafasi's wasn't a swinging arm, though. Laulala's would have been a penalty without the high shot, which would have been OK IMO. Both YCs were only issued because the Namibian players went waist-high into contact.
I liked the approach they had five years ago, where intent was more important than outcome.
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@Bones said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:But but what if you can't have a positive result for your team without infringing?
See above.
If you don't infringe and they score, you're still on the park and have an opportunity to influence the outcome of the match.
If you infringe, get penalised, and get sent for 10mins or more the opposition may still have scored and you have no opportunity to influence the outcome of the match whilst you're off.
And you make it harder on your teammates.
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@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Tu'ungafasi's wasn't a swinging arm, though. Laulala's would have been a penalty without the high shot, which would have been OK IMO. Both YCs were only issued because the Namibian players went waist-high into contact.
I liked the approach they had five years ago, where intent was more important than outcome.
The ref penalised both players for swinging arms.
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@MiketheSnow yeah was being sarcastic.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
EDIT / Addendum: I also call bullshit on Nepo and Ofa seeing red had the defenders not been falling - fuck me they were both about 12 inches off the ground when they made contact. If the attackers hadn't been falling, the tackles would have hit in the midriff and been perfectly legal. So, what's the cause of the danger in that situation? Certainly not the height at which Ofa and Nepo made contact. The swinging arms? Nope, wouldn't have an issue if not for the attackers' body height.
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@Frank said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MrDenmore said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow and there you are. But don’t bother yourself with the effort of dealing with the argument. Just strike your weasel poses
And here come the insults right on cue.
How do you suggest the defender stop the attacking player when the attacker goes really low, close to the line, and he (the attacker) leads with his head and neck?
Lead with the goggles?
Seriously, I feel sorry for the refs. They've been told to make decisions using rules/guidelines which are at times almost impossible to rule on.
It's essentially a lottery on many calls which could wreck a knockout game and ain't fair on players or refs.
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
If a player is charging head first with his head around waist height it is very difficult to effect a tackle without contact to the head. Even more so if the player ducks down late in the piece. I fail to see how you can tackle him around the midriff in that situation.
Players falling or ducking into tackles used to be seen as a mitigating factor for obvious reasons. I'm amazed they've abandoned that and are now YC'ing any contact to the head from a arm or shoulder.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
Is he though Mike??? Is he????
I've seen players make 3-4m of ground with the ball in that position, are defenders supposed to just watch them now?
Its such a daft argument to suggest that there is a certain running position that attackers can assume that makes them illegal to tackle
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:The player is going to ground.
Fair point but the whole thing has opened a can of worms.
We'll end up with players being carded for going to ground too quickly, or to milk a penalty/card or in a manner which may cause injury to themselves
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
I would love to see this magic trick, make 120kg in motion disappear. No way he could have pulled out of the tackle in the time between the player running normal then dropping their head.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
You may not like it. You may not agree with it.
BUT THIS IS HOW THIS WC IS BEING REFEREED.
As I wrote yesterday, evolve or die.
Namibia were game and played some high tempo, inventive rugby fair play. They opened up the ABs defence quite easily at times, just didn't have the skill to finish their chances.
And the NZ covering defence was superb.
That's your 9, 11, 13, 14 sorted as far as I'm concerned.
Mo' to 10, SBW to 12, BB to 15 with BFA to the wing or bench
I'd go with Ardie at 8, Cane at 7, Read at 6
Mike, if you can't see the issue with carding defenders in that situation, you're living in La La Land. We know that's how it's being reffed, our issue is that there's little the defender can reasonably do in those situations to legally stop the attacking player (given the way it's being reffed).
As I've said above, you have to wrap the arms to make a legal tackle. However, when a player is diving at your knees as you try to tackle him below the shoulders, you will inevitably get some head / neck contact as the "target" shrinks due to his body position. All of the sudden, your wrapping arms - which you are obliged to do under the laws - become "swinging arms" - which you are explicitly prevented from doing under the laws.
So, what the hell are you supposed to do in that situation, Mike? Not tackle?
Exactly.
The player is going to ground.
He's not, though, Mike because he's not tackled and will simply get up and keep going. In fact, I've seen in this RWC a worrying trend of players getting up and going again after the "tackle" (many times once a ruck has formed) because of this.
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
