All Blacks v Springboks
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@pukunui Yeah - but, the conversion stats especially aren't a bad guide.
What they do indicate is that usually Beauden would sink those easy ones he missed last night.
Apropos to very little - I can remember years ago seeing a snooker documentary where they got some of the top players to take something like a thousand identical and pretty easy shots. Steve Davis - who was the best player in the world at the time did significantly better than the next best guys. Would be interesting to see the same thing in a goal kicking contest.
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No one has mentioned how well ABs monstored Boks in maul on second half. Ardie's try came from more than twenty metres out.
Can't help feeling the BB thing is mental. Can remember thinking when we really needed conversion from sideline that he would slot it, and sure enough he did, bisecting the posts. That level of focus and I can't see how he'd have missed both the posters.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks:
No one has mentioned how well ABs monstored Boks in maul on second half. Ardie's try came from more than twenty metres out.
Can't help feeling the BB thing is mental. Can remember thinking when we really needed conversion from sideline that he would slot it, and sure enough he did, bisecting the posts. That level of focus and I can't see how he'd have missed both the posters.
He's had a weird thing of kicking sideline conversions, but duffing easy ones in front of the posts. Maybe too relaxed?
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Sydney Morning Herald's Team of the Week
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Steven Kitshoff (South Africa)
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Malcolm Marx (South Africa)
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Frans Malherbe (South Africa)
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Franco Mostert (South Africa)
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Tomas Lavanini (Argentina)
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Pablo Matera (Argentina)
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Siya Kolisi (South Africa)
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Warren Whiteley (South Africa)
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Faf de Klerk (South Africa)
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Nicholas Sanchez (Argentina)
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Aphiwe Dyanti (South Africa)
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Handre Pollard (South Africa)
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Jesse Kriel (South Africa)
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Ben Smith (New Zealand)
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Willie le Roux (South Africa)
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Judging by that team you'd think the Boks beat us by 50 points.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Judging by that team you'd think the Boks beat us by 50 points.
Codie Taylor was the best forward on the park in both tests.
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^
Kriel didn't play center. I guess I should just stop there.Will.not.mention.that.pack.between.them.would.be.surviving.on.scraps.
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@rapido I guess he at least slotted in there when replacements were made...however that probably coincided with Goodhue tearing shit up.
Although, I am mildly impressed they managed to figure that Kolisi is an openside despite playing in 6. Seems many posters here can't even figure that one.
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ACT Crusaderreplied to akan004 on 16 Sept 2018, 08:50 last edited by ACT Crusader 16 Sept 2018, 08:51
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Squire will miss the rest of the RC. Hope they bring in Akira.
What for? Don’t you know they picked 8 blindside flankers in the squad.
In all seriousness, Frizzell will be given further opportunity.
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I have a half arsed theory that Beaudy's kicking tee is way too high.
Looks like he's using the tee you would use with your driver, except he's playing a par three.
It just looks like the margin of error is way too high off such a high tee.
I haven't really spent much time checking to see what type of tee other kickers are using.
Regardless of that, his kick trajectory is wildly inconsistent, he doesn't seem to be sure if he's trying a draw or a fade or a straight kick trajectory.
One of the latter misses looked to me like his foot was way off where it should have been contacting the ball.
The drop kick palaver, short memory guys, short memory.
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@rapido said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Will.not.mention.that.pack.between.them.would.be.surviving.on.scraps.
Isn't that pretty much how they won?
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Judging by that team you'd think the Boks beat us by 50 points.
The usual media overreaction. Also not buying into this talk from many that we were beaten by a better team on the day. We beat ourselves really with sheer stupidity at times and of course Beauden's misses.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Judging by that team you'd think the Boks beat us by 50 points.
The usual media overreaction. Also not buying into this talk from many that we were beaten by a better team on the day. We beat ourselves really with sheer stupidity at times and of course Beauden's misses.
I must’ve missed the part when there were 30 guys in black jersey’s on the park.
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@akan004 you should have seen the English punters all over it with glee yesterday, that's the kind of thing that makes it really hard to support them even after living here ten years. Greenwood and Barnes were delighted.
Edit: just remembered they also declared the AB England match is a non event and the boks are the big game in the "autumn" internationals.
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Salacious Crumbreplied to Siam on 16 Sept 2018, 15:29 last edited by Salacious Crumb 16 Sept 2018, 15:30
@siam said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Lost to Boks at home because the antecedent of Don Clarke, Allen Hewson, Grant Fox, Andrew Mehrtens and Dan Carter ( to name a few) couldn't land kicks a 16 year old would nail!!??
The Boot used to kick ‘em long range, out of the mud, no kicking tee. With the toe of his boot. I guess by the time Fox was around they were using small mounds of dirt.
Beauden’s shitshow landing place kicks yesterday has me as vexxed and mystified as when Anton Oliver couldn’t throw into the lineout straight. Try some practice drills. All the tools and elements of the modern game are there. If you practice-practice-practice and still can’t find the greens and make your putts, maybe it’s time to find another putter, or spend some more time practicing.
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ShadowTrooperreplied to Kirwan on 16 Sept 2018, 15:29 last edited by ShadowTrooper 16 Sept 2018, 15:31
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Why are people saying "if we'd started Mo'unga"? Did they not watch his first test start?
Probably because a Mo'unga-BB 10 - 15 combo could have worked better than the BB-JB combo?
I'd never have started Mo'unga in this game but I'd have preferred him on the bench so that BB could drop back to 15 in the second half and RM could play at first five-eighth.
Would Mo’unga have taken over the kicking? DMac and JB are better kickers than BB, and even with BB having a particularly bad night with the boot Read didn’t give the ball to anyone else.
That was the most inexplicable thing to me, where was the captaincy to adjust when something was going wrong?
That was I didn't get. It became pretty obvious early on BB was having a shocker from the tee, so why not change the kicker? DMac - or hell even get the pimply giraffe to earn his keep FFS!
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@nevorian said in All Blacks v Springboks:
A few things learnt
4 Beaden Barrett will miss a few kicks but we don't lose too many tests when he is on the park
Depends what you mean by "many".
His win-loss ratio (when starting) is way below Cruden's and Carter's.
Since he's been our starting 1st-5 we've lost to Ireland, not won the Lions series, struggled against Scotland and now lost at home to the Boks. Plus some other losses of less concern.
So we don't lose "many" but an increasing amount of "few".
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@chester-draws how many due to his kicking?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
technically, he did hit the side of the barn, twice, the ball just bounced away from the entrance
Pity It was the wrong fuckin' barn....
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Judging by that team you'd think the Boks beat us by 50 points.
The usual media overreaction. Also not buying into this talk from many that we were beaten by a better team on the day. We beat ourselves really with sheer stupidity at times and of course Beauden's misses.
I must’ve missed the part when there were 30 guys in black jersey’s on the park.
Might be the part where we gifted them 2 tries?
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@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v Springboks:
That was I didn't get. It became pretty obvious early on BB was having a shocker from the tee, so why not change the kicker? DMac - or hell even get the pimply giraffe to earn his keep FFS!
This was the real issue. You wonder what thought Read gave to changing the kicker.
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@victor-meldrew by all accounts the kicking thing was discussed, and agreed among the leadership group to stay as it was...also apparently Read said it was a decison of the 'drivers' (assume TJP & BB) to determine if they should go for the DG or the overlap we had...
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@taniwharugby Can understand not going for a DG - that makes sense as that approach has worked in the past. Think they need a more flexible approach to the goal-kicking though.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v Springboks:
That was I didn't get. It became pretty obvious early on BB was having a shocker from the tee, so why not change the kicker? DMac - or hell even get the pimply giraffe to earn his keep FFS!
This was the real issue. You wonder what thought Read gave to changing the kicker.
Does Read actually have any input into this in reality though? I would think it is decided between the kickers.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@taniwharugby Can understand not going for a DG - that makes sense as that approach has worked in the past. Think they need a more flexible approach to the goal-kicking though.
We had multiple opportunities to go for the DG before the full time hooter sounded, meaning even if we missed we'd get the ball back.
I think from that position it was a braindead decision to go for the try. And I say try, because we were highly unlikely to get a penalty go our way at that stage unless it was an extremely obvious one.
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Regarding Barrett's goal kicking costing the ABs a test, the only other game I can think of is the 3rd test vs the Lions. He kicked 2/4. Ironically, BB was 6/6 in the 1st test and 7/10 in the 2nd test in that series. That sums up his inconsistency.
The Chicago loss can't be blamed on goal kicking. Outplayed and outscored in tries.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Regarding Barrett's goal kicking costing the ABs a test, the only other game I can think of is the 3rd test vs the Lions. He kicked 2/4. Ironically, BB was 6/6 in the 1st test and 7/10 in the 2nd test in that series. That sums up his inconsistency.
The Chicago loss can't be blamed on goal kicking. Outplayed and outscored in tries.
He's had a couple of shockers for the Hurricanes as well hasn't he?
2015 final springs to mind
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks:
The Chicago loss can't be blamed on goal kicking. Outplayed and outscored in tries.
Agreed. A confluence of issues; hubris, injuries, opponent playing very well. Kicking was the least of our issues.
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So we are treating this somewhat as an imperfect storm? Took quite a few things going wrong to end up here. Or quite a bit going right if you take a SA perspective!
Brings some spice to it all, gives us areas to really focus on... esp what plans B, C etc should involve. A bit crazy when we genuinely think it's easier to score a try than build pressure for a penalty or take a droppie.
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I'm not too fussed at the result as it was a cracking test and the reason I love rugby. Hard tackling commitment and passion shown by both teams.
I wouldn't change much apart from working our why BB is a bit hopeless under proper pressure.
He carves up when we are dominating and looks the reason he is two times WPOTY but under proper pressure he hasn't stood up and taken control like Dan would have once he learnt to deal with pressure
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@paekakboyz perfect storm or an anomoly...looking at the stats, we had them everywhere but the scoreboard, when usually it is us that win with less ball and territory.
Certainly makes the next game against them much, much more intriguing.
This game has given them self belief, but you could argue we are still a much better team, so will they be able to replicate thier accuracy and intensity on defence, while also expecting us to crumble under the pressure again, and BB have another off night with the boot.
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@nevorian said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@sammyc Maybe Westpac stadium is his bogey kicking ground then?
to his credit on Saturday he did kick a pearler from the sideline which many other kickers would have struggled with
No, he often kicks sideline pearlers at Westpac. Keeping them low in the wind, sometimes even fading right instead of hooking left.
He just isn't consistent. He can kick the difficult ones but miss the easier ones. This observation is mostly based on just a dataset of conversions.
It's harder to get an idea how he is with his penalties beyond the 22m as the Canes just don't take them.
The issue, for me, with an inconsistent kicker is; does it effect the tactical decisions by the captain on whether to go for the posts or plug the corners. Both the Canes and the All Blacks are fairly one dimensional and always turn down the 3. So, i don't think it is a tactical quandry for the captain. But, i'm not that comfortable with this approach. But maybe the game has moved ahead of my 1980/90s test match upbringing.
As for Berauden's techique. I do wonder if his Caketin approach means he doesn't have a consistent swing. Does he alter his desired trajectory (and even fade) often for the wind. This has been mentioned before as a theory on this site by someone else.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
This game has given them self belief, but you could argue we are still a much better team, so will they be able to replicate thier accuracy and intensity on defence, while also expecting us to crumble under the pressure again, and BB have another off night with the boot.
Loftus means penalties from 60 m are on the cards. You know SA will take them so we have to expect more long range attempts at goal.
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@bovidae Assuming JB plays, he takes long ones anyway doesnt he?
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@taniwharugby For the Canes, but a different mindset in SR. It shouldn't matter at altitude, your regular kicker should have the distance.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
This game has given them self belief, but you could argue we are still a much better team, so will they be able to replicate thier accuracy and intensity on defence, while also expecting us to crumble under the pressure again, and BB have another off night with the boot.
Loftus means penalties from 60 m are on the cards. You know SA will take them so we have to expect more long range attempts at goal.
True. I'm looking forward to this game even more. Should ask some really tough questions of our tactical approach.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Latest rankings. Cab someone explain how these work ? Full credit to S.A. but surely one won doesn't guarantee a jump of two spots?
why not?
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