@canefan said in Lions v Hurricanes (SF):

Apart from the sitter he dropped in Lions III I thought he was busy and enthusiastic and generally played quite well

"Busy and enthusiastic" are what we say about boys in teams when, actually, they are a little bit shit.

@taniwharugby said in NH ditch Junior rep rugby teams...:

I struggle to understand the drivers, how is removing that representative opportunity for the better quality kids going to enhance their enjoyment of the game?

My experience is that junior rep rugby doesn't target the better kids, so I have quite a lot of sympathy for the idea. Junior reps are the kids that have played the longest and/or are the earlier developers and/or play for the best teams and coaches. As a kid who was at the wrong end of the year, I thought I was much worse at rugby than I was, whereas it was merely that I was close to 11 when the "stars" were almost 13. At that age it's a huge matter.

As a guy who has seen literally thousands of kids flow through from junior rep rugby into secondary school rugby, I don't see any link between who is good at 18 and who is good at 12. I've seen so many kids come into school all pumped up because they played Roller Mills or such, only to find that they were merely early developers. Meanwhile some quiet kid who develops late, but has a good work ethic, is a much better player. Our school stopped selecting teams based on previous rep experience and went with who trained harder.

There's quite a few on this site that argue even 1st XV rugby continues the practice of merely selecting the biggest players, rather than the most skillful, which is why Auckland can't convert its massive base into provincial dominance.

And the worst part of the rep system is that it ingrains any selections based on age/size etc. Those kids get to play more and get the best coaches. Meanwhile some late developer gets only half the rugby and less good coaching.

This is not to say that NH is right. Sometimes a bad system is better than no system. I simply do not think that being selected as a rep, aged 11, is any guide to anything much.

Much guess will be that it will have zero long term effect on NH rugby.

@No-Quarter said in Bledisoe #1:

The fact that they’ve picked a team that so many on the Fern wanted makes me nervous. As a collective we have a strong proven record of not having a fucking clue what we are talking about.

You say that. And yet when I have to listen to the shit spouted at work about rugby I think fondly of Fern wisdom.

We might always be wrong. But not half as wrong as most fans.

@no-quarter said in Blues win percentage against NZ teams:

@hooroo said in Blues win percentage against NZ teams:

@duluth said in Blues win percentage against NZ teams:

@hooroo

Yes, that did seem to help

One year was it?

Because I was told to judge Tana after three years.. we're almost at three years now.. now I'm told Tana should get another 2 years added to his contract

The strange thing is I can't find a Blues fan that wants that

Yes and also Razor did it in his first year too!

Boyd got the Canes a home final in his first year, then won the thing the next year. Fair bit of evidence to suggest a quality coach can make a big difference.

I think the evidence the coach makes a big difference is overwhelming.

I did a check and iirc anyone who won a Super Rugby title did it in their first three years, and for most the turn-around was immediately obvious. McKenzie at the Reds, the most dramatic.

Foster managed a final in his fifth? year, and the team was crap the next, showing it was fluke.

Even great coaches tended to get worse over time, rather than better. (I suspect they don't get worse, just that the opposition know what to expect, so the results slip a bit.)

There is zero chance, based on previous history, that Tana can turn the ship around.

The Chiefs kept hoping Foster would deliver, the Crusaders kept hoping Blackadder would. They didn't, and neither will Tana.

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew
Players of a known quantity are underperforming, new players don't cut the mustard. That's on the coach.

Or the players just aren't there? The player pool at 9 isn't exactly overflowing and that's not down to Foster

Except it is. Robertson can win Super Trophies with Drummond -- who isn't even in the reckoning for the ABs. Brad Weber can play some amazing rugby, with the right game plan. (I loathe TJP with a passion, and can't way to see the back of him, but that's more about what a tool he is as a person.)

Robertson's hardly a lone exception. We can all cite coaches who just seem to get the best out of players. And other coaches who turn gold into, um, not gold.

It's no good saying that NZ isn't producing the quality of players we used to, when our Super and provincial teams are streaks ahead of everyone else. And when our rejects are starting players for other countries.

Our game plan seems to be, kick it as soon as you get it except in their 22, and hope to score from individual brilliance. It's a shit plan, and it deserves what it got last night. It isn't like Beauden was carving up when he was on, he kicked it even more than Mo'unga. It has to be the plan, not the players.

@baron-silas-greenback

I find it difficult, in fact nearly impossible, to believe Warner is a nice guy off the field. Nice guys simply do not do what he does.

They don't spout anger relentlessly and the go all cry-baby when the retaliation is equally brutal. They don't cheat as soon as they look like losing. They don't spout cant about how they'd never do something and then do it. They don't use their kids as shields.

I'm sure he's a decent seeming fellow in the pub when everything is going well and everyone's having a laugh. I'm sure he loves his wife and family. I can even believe he's remorseful, for the moment.

But he'll be just like he always was after a season or two.

So, while I have not particularly laid into him in this thread, I don't think he's been hard done by.

People have been asking him to behave better for years and not only has he ignored them, but he has laughed at the requests. He himself showed little compassion for others caught ball tampering.

I'll show him exactly the same regard as he shows others.

If reports are even half to be believed, I will be joined by his team mates.

@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:

So do you go all out with a shallow playing pool + by far worst travel schedule in world rugby or do you pick & choose what games you prioritise

The Pumas do not have "by far the worst travel schedule". You're on a group from New Zealand for goodness sake. We're literally the furthest away from all the other rugby playing nations. Your NH tour tours are both much less far and with far less time difference.

Argentina in the Rugby Championship have one more long trip than NZ or Australia, but there are direct flights to each country involved. South Africa have to travel just as far as you.

The difference is that we win away from home, so people assume that we don't have travel issues. That's not true -- we've merely learnt to overcome them. The Pumas problem is not the travel, but that they don't play well away from home, regardless of the travel time involved.

@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:

Not sure if you remember how many 'experts' knew that NZRU got it wrong reappointing Henry and co after 2007 WC, and how many reckoned that Wallabies were going to beat us with the 'superior' coach in Robbie Deans. Bet you don't hear many of them repeating it nowadays.

But in both cases:

1. The first year gave a picture of what was to follow. Deans never did get any better. Henry continued to have a magnificent team (the loss that never happened was always the aberration).
2. We still said wait until the second year's out before re-signing. As we are doing here.

It's one thing to be wrong before a coach is appointed. But after seeing a year of trash, being wrong after he has had a run is just plain idiotic.

At international level, and indeed Super Rugby, coaches who haven't got a winning team by the end of their second year never will (reliably) have one. Really good coaches turn things around pretty damned fast. Rennie won his first year with a team that Foster got eight years with. Robertson won early, while Blackadder never could despite the Crusader's faith that somehow it would get better with time.

If the ABs aren't looking a lot better by the end of 2021, then they never will under Foster.

Oh, and paragraphs help others to read what you write. That's why they invented them.

@dingo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:

Holy shit.

I just saw the Crusaders forward pack and compared it to the Canes.

Only a complete meltdown from the Crusaders and FABCRR (Future AB Coach Razor Robertson) could lose them this game.

Canes complete underdogs.

Todd Blackadder had forward packs like that, including McCaw.

Robertson has taken them from contenders to unbackable favourites in two years.

@snowy said in Blues win percentage against NZ teams:

@jegga said in Blues win percentage against NZ teams:

Ah , what I like to call the schadenfreude thread .

There actually hasn't been a lot of gloating - mostly just us Blues guys wallowing in our own misery.

Twenty odd years back I moved to Auckland, when it was towards the end of its enormous run of victories. Back then far too many Aucklanders were saying that their dominance was good for NZ. I heard many argue that "strong Auckland means strong All Blacks", as if we should all not just lose to them, but enjoy losing.

The ARU gloated about how it's systems ensured that they remained on top. They refused to accept that it was largely due to three very good coaches in a row, and that one wrong move might bring it all down.

I built up a sizeable dislike for Auckland rugby, whereas I had previously grudging admired how good they were. I never ever felt the same way about Canterbury and the Crusader dominance because they never gloated half so much. Sure they tend to over-rate their players who get an armchair ride, but they never acted as if they had a right to win.

As a result, although I largely kept it to myself, I have thoroughly enjoyed the drop in fortunes of Auckland and The Blues. It has given me great joy every time they finished down the table. Especially as the All Blacks have gotten better as they have got worse.

But even I have now had enough. It's no longer fun.

It's not like we have been playing well with Beauden Barrett. The problem lies deeper than Richie Mo'unga.

@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..

If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.

Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.

I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.

Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.

Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again😉

Until recently Ireland had never beaten us. Last week they gave us a hiding.

France snapped a 19? game losing streak, to give us another hiding.

And I'm not going to apologize for saying things are totally shit in the AB camp when we lose to a pretty mediocre Argentina.

@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..

If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.

Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.

@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Haven’t seen the test and or read the thread, but congrats to France.

Tough year for the ABs. I look forward to 2022.

That's brave of you!

I shall be watching through the gaps in my fingers, like an 8 year old with a scary movie.

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.

Wonder? I think it's pretty certain.

The issue is why.

@damo said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

The Green Bay Packers have the highest winning percentage in all games since 1921. Their win rate is 0.573.

They play in a league designed to help weak teams (draft order particularly, salary pricing, no relegation). International rugby is very different.

About the only way they are similar is that both sets have protected home areas.

We have had bad years in the recent past, but this is somewhat different from them.

Usually bad years came about when we had just had a few older players retire, or we were trying new tactics. Sometimes when we tried to get too clever with "rotation". But it is a long time since we were beaten in consecutive games quite so convincingly by NH opposition. A very long time.

We had a bad year in 1998. It appeared to get better, then it didn't. And the coach took almost all the blame (anyone remember the "Guilty"cover of NZ Rugby World?)

The whole world knows how to beat us now (except Australia). And our coaches have no idea what to do.

@dan54 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:

Bloody great test, French deserved to win, they had our pack struggling, and DuPont was immense !
Shrewd move though fellas, when was last time we lost 3 tests in a year and 2 in a row?
2009 and we won WC 2 years later , have we set it up??

I went back and checked that 2009 team. This quote struck me as funny:

- while there is no specialist No 8 from any of the Super 14 sides named in the squad, the selectors are confident that Liam Messam has the skill set and experience to play in this position. They also feel that Kieran Read is another to have the skill set to play at No 8.

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.

I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.

OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?

But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.

Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.

The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.

You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.

When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?

That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.

Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.

What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.

Combinations brings cohesion. Ireland played like a team that have played lots of times together. Today, they raised their Leinster levels up.

We used to be able to roll out teams with ten players rotated from the week before and play as if they were established. We did that for a decade.

I don't think it is the lack of combinations. I think it is that the players don't know what they are doing, or what they are doing is ineffective, and then the fact that they haven't played together in those positions makes it worse.

Before the game the Fern was happy that the team selected wasn't too bad. Now we say that it is the players?

It's pretty obviously the coaching and game plan. Chopping players around in positions is the coach, not the players.