What is the best AB Midfield?
-
Ot's one thing about Mckenzie (or the way he is being used) which pisses me off. He makes great territory kicks for the Chiefs in just that position, but almost never is used like that for the ABs.
-
Having just watched a replay of the game v Scotland, I tried to note down the ABs backline plays from set piece.
Can't vouch for 100% accuracy but should give some guide as to the game plan on Saturday, not sure how representative this is for other matches of late, but might give some idea as to midfield issues - attack centric as I am of the opinion that defence is not a big issue.
SBW hit up as first receiver 3 (one try assist for BB try)
SBW hit up as second receiver 3 (one try assist grubber for DMac try)
SBW pass from second receiver 2, one to Crotty, one to Ioane
BB kick 1
BB run 1
Ioane hit up as second receiver 1So at least from Saturday it seems to me, we are playing without an effective attacking centre.
Crotty basically not involved in any way in the attack going forward, one carry from an SBW pass and into contact.
So game plan is not looking to use Crotty to take the ball to the opposition defence, either running or passing and feeding the wingers/creating space.
Seems very odd to me, so his role seems to be defensive where he was very good.
But I would like to see more variety in attack from midfield, and a centre who is involved in the game plan and is able to keep the opposition defence guessing.
I suspect to some extent this might be due to SBW not being a great running/passing 12 a la Nonu, he might grow into that skill set but I think it may be restricting the AB attack variation currently. Hard to argue with two great try assists but not sure how sustainable such an attack plan is.
-
@infidel Very interesting, I recall the stats from a game Vs Australia where Crotty I think made two carries or similar. You would have to assume the opposition has the same analysis so they would bet most of the time SBW will take the ball. Perhaps why his grubbers have been effective as the opposition would be looking to nail him as soon as he touches it.
So who actually makes the set piece calls? is it from the coaches box or does BB make the call based on field position etc?
-
I have definitely been noticing a similar trend this season. So often good attacking ball from a set piece is wasted by a simple hit up at first or second reciever with very little deception or use of extra space. SBW has been used like that, Laumape has been used like that and one of the worst examples was Dagg being used to hit it up in the final minutes of third (was it third?) Lions test.
The other one that has been over used this season is Read taking it off the back of the scrum and doing some silly little 8-9 move that usually ends up in a knock on or spilled pass because of all the traffic.
-
Yeah that's some interesting stuff, nice @infidel
@chimoaus perhaps it's Foster going back to his tried and true, just minus one Sivivatu?
Interesting to see those attacking "moves" also and think back to the brilliant inter-linking between ALB and Crotty last year, most notably on quick, flat ball. So we know they're both capable.
As often noted, I can't see how this season has been anything other than "reserved" play. Has been a very limited and stunted attack we've shown, often with a real reluctance to create and use space in the wider channels.
-
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
-
@milk said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
People who don't ever watch rugby? What sane rugby watcher would ever think Ardie would start over Cane?
-
@bones said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
Yeah that's some interesting stuff, nice @infidel
@chimoaus perhaps it's Foster going back to his tried and true, just minus one Sivivatu?
Interesting to see those attacking "moves" also and think back to the brilliant inter-linking between ALB and Crotty last year, most notably on quick, flat ball. So we know they're both capable.
As often noted, I can't see how this season has been anything other than "reserved" play. Has been a very limited and stunted attack we've shown, often with a real reluctance to create and use space in the wider channels.
It's hard to believe the ABs aren't keeping things back. For me, the suspicion was increased by the SBW/DMac/BB move, which seemed to be several notches up from anything else we saw on Saturday.
-
Analysis: How the All Blacks unleashed Sonny Bill Williams against Scotland
Analysis: How the All Blacks unleashed Sonny Bill Williams against Scotland
The reality is the role Williams plays in the All Blacks midfield has changed. He is being asked to do different things, most of which go unnoticed.
-
@pukunui said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
I have definitely been noticing a similar trend this season. So often good attacking ball from a set piece is wasted by a simple hit up at first or second reciever with very little deception or use of extra space. SBW has been used like that, Laumape has been used like that and one of the worst examples was Dagg being used to hit it up in the final minutes of third (was it third?) Lions test.
The other one that has been over used this season is Read taking it off the back of the scrum and doing some silly little 8-9 move that usually ends up in a knock on or spilled pass because of all the traffic.
Yep that Dagg hit up was a low point of that series. Terrific field position, attacking scrum, some of the best attacking players in rugby, and they farking get Dagg to run a crash ball.
As mentioned, it's incredibly frustrating watching other teams use space and get the ball wide. I truly hope this bash and crash bullshit is only a phase. It's a massive waste of some terrific talent.
-
@nepia said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@milk said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
People who don't ever watch rugby? What sane rugby watcher would ever think Ardie would start over Cane?
Those ‘sane’ watchers that like 5 minute compilation highlight reels on YouTube with accompanying hip hop music i.e certain Canes supporters
-
@milk said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
I don't think Canes reputation has grown.. It's just the Ardies has dropped.. Cane has had his fair share of shit games.. But he has been a lot more solid than Ardie..
Ardie has been so bad this year in black that he has been surpassed by Todd (which is great to see)
Todd may even surpass Cane, if he can add physicality to his game.. -
@act-crusader said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@nepia said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@milk said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
People who don't ever watch rugby? What sane rugby watcher would ever think Ardie would start over Cane?
Those ‘sane’ watchers that like 5 minute compilation highlight reels on YouTube with accompanying hip hop music i.e certain Canes supporters
haha snap!!
-
@mimic said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@milk said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@gt12 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
he's probably the only senior AB who's reputation is growing. Whitelock and (mostly) Cane are staying steady
I think Cane's reputation has increased massively this year. At the beginning of the year there were plenty of people saying he shouldn't be starting (Ardie should have been). I don't hear many people disputing his place in the team anymore.
I don't think Canes reputation has grown.. It's just the Ardies has dropped.. Cane has had his fair share of shit games.. But he has been a lot more solid than Ardie..
Ardie has been so bad this year in black that he has been surpassed by Todd (which is great to see)
Todd may even surpass Cane, if he can add physicality to his game..haha what? jesus mimic you're better than that.
I'm not ragging on Todd, who is a fantastic player, probably the best breakdown and link openside in the country.
But Cane has been about the best AB over the course of the season. He's had a massive year. Some of his performances have been absolutely top draw. His effort in the 2nd Lions test when he took on their vaunted flankers single handedly after Kaino went to the bench was fucking incredible.
Cane has definitely advanced his position this year, he's in zero danger of being replaced. He's probably one of the first on the team sheet.
-
Best AB over the course of the season? Wow.. I'm surprised he didn't get voted as player of the year..
You mention that Todd is the best breakdown and link openside in the country, and if he can add physicality to his game, what will Cane be the best at?
I call bullshit on "probably one of the first on the team sheet".
He wouldn't make my top 5. -
@mimic said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
Best AB over the course of the season? Wow.. I'm surprised he didn't get voted as player of the year..
You mention that Todd is the best breakdown and link openside in the country, and if he can add physicality to his game, what will Cane be the best at?
I call bullshit on "probably one of the first on the team sheet".
He wouldn't make my top 5.who was player of the year? I missed that award.
and Matt Todd is 29, at what point does he completely change the make-up of his game? 31?
It's highly, highly unlikely that a guy loses his spot to a bloke 4 years older than you, who you've played 6 times as many tests as, after a massive season.
In short, you're talking shit.
-
@mariner4life said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
It's highly, highly unlikely that a guy loses his spot to a bloke 4 years older than you, who you've played 6 times as many tests as, after a massive season.
A guy who is being talked about as potential AB captain as well.
There's zero chance Todd will overtake Cane, except by injury.
