All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
This is what I found on the World Rugby website. I am still a little confused.
Prior to the match, each team must advise the appropriate match official of their front-row players and possible front-row replacements and which position(s) in the front row they can play. Only these players may play in the front row when the scrum is contested and only in their designated position(s).
A replacement front-row player may start the match in another position.Sounds like we could have said that Bower could play LH and TH. in which case Ross on would have let normal scrums to continue.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
That's straight out Mcleod's job. Club level stuff.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd actually bet against it falling at all, but really execution should only be stayed if NZR genuinely believe Fozzie is the best man for the job (or it's going to cost millions and millions to axe him).
Then they are crap at writing contracts.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life We fucked ourselves with a stupid selection process that meant all the potential assistants had to take sides before the Head Coach was appointed.
@Frank - plenty of chance, but I think it would be a dumb move.
Joe quit coaching because he was burned out and he will have used all his best ideas already with Ireland. Meanwhile we've got a younger guy jumping out of his skin for the job, who has made it pretty clear he's been preparing for the job for about the last five years.
I thought Joe had a family member that needed looking after?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
And here I was thinking the powder was well and truly dry seeing our tighties get exposed over and over.
Bring back Owen Franks.
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That vision is damning
How easily do they isolate a front rower?
Notice our shape is not too much different but everyone is flatter. Meaning less options, less time, and often a less effective clean. And Ireland have the one out the back for the 2nd option (which we did a bit on Saturday as well).
Damning of individuals and their so called structure.
I think part of this is why we are more prone to reds. We are trying for individuals to stop momentum, rather than multiple players. Thus we need a bigger hit. Which increases our risk profile.
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@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
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@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
That vision is damning
How easily do they isolate a front rower?
Notice our shape is not too much different but everyone is flatter. Meaning less options, less time, and often a less effective clean. And Ireland have the one out the back for the 2nd option (which we did a bit on Saturday as well).
Damning of individuals and their so called structure.
I think part of this is why we are more prone to reds. We are trying for individuals to stop momentum, rather than multiple players. Thus we need a bigger hit. Which increases our risk profile.
Agree, I said in another thread, or maybe this one who knows, that the poor discipline and cards we are getting feel like a symptom of a poorly coached team, and I think you've articulated it well there. As we are being exposed players are getting desperate to try and stop the momentum so taking more and more risks to do so.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
Funny how many of our players excelled during Super Rugby. Suddenly they look shadows of themselves. The players didn't suddenly became rubbish overnight. It has to be the coaching and systems not putting them in a position to be successful
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae Neither of them have trouble making tackles in Super Rugby, and they used to be pretty good defenders at test level. Maybe the defensive structure is just poor?
Funny how many of our players excelled during Super Rugby. Suddenly they look shadows of themselves. The players didn't suddenly became rubbish overnight. It has to be the coaching and systems not putting them in a position to be successful
They were flat footed with guys running at pace at space. This was at the start of the game mostly, with nice straight defensive lines. To me it looks like simple one on one targeting of guys who don’t move that well. Nothing magical. Luckily they are our most mobile front row 😀.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
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@antipodean thanks!
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
I suspect I should answer here.
Hardly call myself an "ardent fan" but I've "defended" Fozzie throughout his tenure.
Coz quite frankly some of the criticism has been deranged.
Not least the "my goodness, what if he actually wins the World Cup? We'll have to put up with him for longer ...". Complete moronic dislike because ... umm...
I've really disliked the hope so some people have that the All Blacks lose because some dickheads prefer a different coach.
Yeah yeah, a different coach may have different results, but actively wanting the All Blacks to lose to prove yourselves right is a fairly cunty place to be.
I'm on record as preferring Razor.
But dont think Fozzie is a complete watse of space.
Try and have a look at how full the glass is, rather than if it might be emptying.
I can see some sort of pattern he's trying to create.
Just don't think it's the right pattern.
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Having said that, if NZR ends his contract after a loss on Saturday I'll not be devastated.
Conversely, if we win, I'll be delighted. Unlike some of you miserable fluffybunnies.
People may say things out of frustration, but the ideal - for everyone except his mum - is that we win and he gets the sack.
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@booboo I've tried to give him credit, especially the way we started last year where he had time to build the team structure & gameplan he wanted after a difficult first year and there were some positive signs, but I've seen enough now. A win this weekend would be great, and I'll enjoy it like I do any other AB win, but I won't fool myself into thinking we're actually going to string some consistent performances together. None of Fosters teams have been able to do that, and his record with the ABs is no different - we can look great when things click, but against the top teams we'll more than likely get found out.
