Michael Jones
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@nepia said in Michael Jones:
@ploughboy said in Michael Jones:
@nepia said in Michael Jones:
Better opensides than Mark Carter since and including when he played:
MJ, GOAT, Kronfeld, Ginge, Brewer, Ardie, Zinny those two matches in EOYT when he played openside, etc etc.Also, I was never in the I hate Carter camp either.
duane monkley
Sorry, I was just concentrating on test players not local heros.
BURN CREAM!
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@snowy said in Michael Jones:
@nepia said in Michael Jones:
We’re taking about Mark Carter right?
Yes. Not quite sure why @nzzp can't think of 4 better flankers than him. Obviously holds him in very high regard.
'twas the sellotape. Made all the difference.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Michael Jones:
Yeah I wondered if something was lost in translation there. Is Josh Kronfeld’s nickname Mark?
Mourie was another one. Jock Hobbs etc.There must have been some sort of miscommunication.
I had Mourie above, and yep Hobbs should be on what is turning into quite an illustrious list.
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@nepia said in Michael Jones:
Better opensides than Mark Carter since and including when he played:
MJ, GOAT, Kronfeld, Ginge, Brewer, Ardie, Zinny those two matches in EOYT when he played openside, etc etc.Also, I was never in the I hate Carter camp either.
Holah at me yo
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@arhs said in Michael Jones:
@snowy did you have Duane Monkley and Marty Holah? I rate McCaw as best and Kronfeld and Jones next.
No to Monkely and Holah. I'm not from Waikato and therefor a completely impartial adjudicator. We aren't doing a Rushmore on Pirongia either.
I also suspect that older folk will have issues with some of those - not Jones or McCaw. They are having their faces chiseled out of a mountain wherever it is.
Kronfeld might sneak onto to said mountain but he does have some serious competition from previous decades. One of the Boomers will let us know I'm sure.
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Hmm an argument on NZ opensides. This could go on for some time. An embarrassment of riches is the term I feel.
In earlier times we in the NH didn’t get to see much of the unlucky/overlooked/out of favour/second choice guys so can really only comment on the more established guys and there are three I can think of that really made you sit up and take notice when you first saw them and McCaw wasn’t one of them for me. Sacrilege I hear screamed by all and sundry but hear me out. Mourie, Jones (in particular) and Kronfeld, just stood out as being so different and so good. Re-defining the art of being a 7. Of those three Jones was just so far ahead of not just the rest of his contemporaries but of his time too. Plus such a freakish athlete, he may even have been looked at as the GOAT but for his injury.
But here I am talking about the initial impact these guys had as much as anything else, this does not necessarily make any one of them the best. So now we come to McCaw. Not as flashy perhaps as the others (maybe because he was invisible for a portion of his career) but his all round skill set, incredible work ethic, ability to continue to improve through a very long career and sheer doggedness makes it very hard to look further than him.
So, Jones or McCaw for the number 1 spot and hard to decide. For me, if I had to pay to watch one of them in his prime, I’d pay to see Jones. If I had to pick one to play for me in a RWC final, I’d pick McCaw.
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@bones said in Michael Jones:
@nepia said in Michael Jones:
Better opensides than Mark Carter since and including when he played:
MJ, GOAT, Kronfeld, Ginge, Brewer, Ardie, Zinny those two matches in EOYT when he played openside, etc etc.Also, I was never in the I hate Carter camp either.
Holah at me yo
I shouldn’t laugh but I did
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@snowy said in Michael Jones:
Kronfeld might sneak onto to said mountain but he does have some serious competition from previous decades. One of the Boomers will let us know I'm sure.
Hell yes.
Waka Nathan, John Graham, Kevin Eveleigh, Ken Stewart....
Has to be noted that Nathan and Graham played (I think) much or all of their careers while the ABs still played left and right flankers - we were a bit slow to recognize and adapt to the superior blind and open system.
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There was a Ba Bas match or a possible v probables in 91 , Jones was 7 playing against NZ top players and he in the first half played at a level of freakyness - I remember commentators saying they had never seen anything like it.
I watched many a 80's Auckland match and Jones was the man, he also was part of the most in sync loose forward trio with AJ and Zinny. Ahead of them a brutal front 5.
MJ was a freak - someone mentioned height but he was a main lineout target even before lifting due to his athleticism.
I agree with the ...I would pay to watch Jones but want McCaw in a WC final quote
