Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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@No-Quarter said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@westcoastie said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I missed the game on Saturday - what happened?
Was there even a game?I'm not going to read back through these posts. Its too depressing. For a long time, I felt our performance in the Lions First test was our template moving forward, now it looks more and more like an aberration. It now seems that we really can't look at in all the recent losses since the BIL & Chicago in isolation, because a pattern has formed, and we really have come back to the pack - which is great for World Rugby, shit for us.
Foster has to go.
RM is not the next Dan Carter, in fact, I think its probably been shown that BB is better behind a poor pack. RM has and does go missing when its not working in front of him. We have some issues, not just RM, but right through the whole team & culture. Time for change.
I hope Razor can fix them.RM is a big time downhill skier and he's shown that quite amply over the past couple of months. No ability or even willingness to try and impact the game when it's not being served up on a platter. I also wonder if he has a good enough kicking game to be steering this team around the park. This team is going to get beaten upfront fairly regularly it seems, so we need a 10 who can actually kick a ball in a way that's going to relieve pressure. I don't see that he has this ability.
He is one of many issues. After the Summer of rugby we've had from Henry and Hansen, this Winter is going to be cold and gloomy
Agreed, and I'm not saying that he is solely to blame for where the team currently sits. I'm just saying, with where this team is currently at, he might not actually be the best guy to be steering them around the park (and he's not even steering them to be accurate).
BB runs hot and cold too, not helped by being played at 15 by the Blues and ABs. Legitimate question, who would you pick?
I would pick BB there, TBH. I know he has his issues, but he is the best available option. He is probably our best player and so needs the ball in his hands more. He has a somewhat proven combination with A Smith. Also, he's clearly one of the leaders and decision-makers - he therefore needs to be in a position to effect these decisions. At the moment, I'm not sure we are getting that from RM.
There were a few moments late in the game where Beauden slotted himself at first receiver and Mo'unga was pushed out one. It didn't look particularly planned to me, more like a senior player trying to take control of the game. I've said it before but I absolutely do not believe Beauden is happy being shifted to 15 to accommodate an unproven rookie who keeps going missing when the going gets tough.
Unproven rookie? He has had 21 games for the All Blacks!
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I get this idea of a double playmaker but
a. it suggests the first playmaker can't do it on his own (unlike most if not all other int. teams) and
b. is BB the only one who can be a "playmaker" at 15?
(PS I'm not trying to pick on him, just asking). -
@nostrildamus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@westcoastie said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I missed the game on Saturday - what happened?
Was there even a game?I'm not going to read back through these posts. Its too depressing. For a long time, I felt our performance in the Lions First test was our template moving forward, now it looks more and more like an aberration. It now seems that we really can't look at in all the recent losses since the BIL & Chicago in isolation, because a pattern has formed, and we really have come back to the pack - which is great for World Rugby, shit for us.
Foster has to go.
RM is not the next Dan Carter, in fact, I think its probably been shown that BB is better behind a poor pack. RM has and does go missing when its not working in front of him. We have some issues, not just RM, but right through the whole team & culture. Time for change.
I hope Razor can fix them.RM is a big time downhill skier and he's shown that quite amply over the past couple of months. No ability or even willingness to try and impact the game when it's not being served up on a platter. I also wonder if he has a good enough kicking game to be steering this team around the park. This team is going to get beaten upfront fairly regularly it seems, so we need a 10 who can actually kick a ball in a way that's going to relieve pressure. I don't see that he has this ability.
He is one of many issues. After the Summer of rugby we've had from Henry and Hansen, this Winter is going to be cold and gloomy
Agreed, and I'm not saying that he is solely to blame for where the team currently sits. I'm just saying, with where this team is currently at, he might not actually be the best guy to be steering them around the park (and he's not even steering them to be accurate).
BB runs hot and cold too, not helped by being played at 15 by the Blues and ABs. Legitimate question, who would you pick?
I would pick BB there, TBH. I know he has his issues, but he is the best available option. He is probably our best player and so needs the ball in his hands more. He has a somewhat proven combination with A Smith. Also, he's clearly one of the leaders and decision-makers - he therefore needs to be in a position to effect these decisions. At the moment, I'm not sure we are getting that from RM.
There were a few moments late in the game where Beauden slotted himself at first receiver and Mo'unga was pushed out one. It didn't look particularly planned to me, more like a senior player trying to take control of the game. I've said it before but I absolutely do not believe Beauden is happy being shifted to 15 to accommodate an unproven rookie who keeps going missing when the going gets tough.
Unproven rookie? He has had 21 games for the All Blacks!
Which makes it even worse
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you may have a good point there.
I'm a bit reckless, I'd keep midfield combinations but I'd rotate 10s. -
@Bones said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The Instagram post is indicative of a bit if a tood.
Ooh what did I miss?
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
a lineout 30km out from our own line
Posted a picture of himself scoring one handed in Sydney with the caption "you're welcome" as a bit of an up yours to us plans who questioned the Wellington fuck up. (Disclaimer, haven't seen it, only heard about it and if I knew how to internet I'd try and find it.)
And we're that bad at defending a rolling maul...
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@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Posted a picture of himself scoring one handed in Sydney with the caption "you're welcome" as a bit of an up yours to us plans who questioned the Wellington fuck up.
Uh right.
Did he post a picture of himself NOT diving on the ball as Argentina took possession right in front of him with "Sorry..." or not?
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@No-Quarter said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@westcoastie said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I missed the game on Saturday - what happened?
Was there even a game?I'm not going to read back through these posts. Its too depressing. For a long time, I felt our performance in the Lions First test was our template moving forward, now it looks more and more like an aberration. It now seems that we really can't look at in all the recent losses since the BIL & Chicago in isolation, because a pattern has formed, and we really have come back to the pack - which is great for World Rugby, shit for us.
Foster has to go.
RM is not the next Dan Carter, in fact, I think its probably been shown that BB is better behind a poor pack. RM has and does go missing when its not working in front of him. We have some issues, not just RM, but right through the whole team & culture. Time for change.
I hope Razor can fix them.RM is a big time downhill skier and he's shown that quite amply over the past couple of months. No ability or even willingness to try and impact the game when it's not being served up on a platter. I also wonder if he has a good enough kicking game to be steering this team around the park. This team is going to get beaten upfront fairly regularly it seems, so we need a 10 who can actually kick a ball in a way that's going to relieve pressure. I don't see that he has this ability.
He is one of many issues. After the Summer of rugby we've had from Henry and Hansen, this Winter is going to be cold and gloomy
Agreed, and I'm not saying that he is solely to blame for where the team currently sits. I'm just saying, with where this team is currently at, he might not actually be the best guy to be steering them around the park (and he's not even steering them to be accurate).
BB runs hot and cold too, not helped by being played at 15 by the Blues and ABs. Legitimate question, who would you pick?
I would pick BB there, TBH. I know he has his issues, but he is the best available option. He is probably our best player and so needs the ball in his hands more. He has a somewhat proven combination with A Smith. Also, he's clearly one of the leaders and decision-makers - he therefore needs to be in a position to effect these decisions. At the moment, I'm not sure we are getting that from RM.
There were a few moments late in the game where Beauden slotted himself at first receiver and Mo'unga was pushed out one. It didn't look particularly planned to me, more like a senior player trying to take control of the game. I've said it before but I absolutely do not believe Beauden is happy being shifted to 15 to accommodate an unproven rookie who keeps going missing when the going gets tough.
that doesn't sound good to me...throws out everyone outside him, RM basically becomes a 12...are we happy with him at 12?
@nostrildamus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I get this idea of a double playmaker but
a. it suggests the first playmaker can't do it on his own (unlike most if not all other int. teams) and
b. is BB the only one who can be a "playmaker" at 15?
(PS I'm not trying to pick on him, just asking).i get the idea of a double play maker when theyre going different ways for example, midfield scrum..."which way will they go?"...or defensive, you need multiple kicking options....not when the 15 just slots in at 10 because he want a go
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@No-Quarter said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@junior said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@westcoastie said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I missed the game on Saturday - what happened?
Was there even a game?I'm not going to read back through these posts. Its too depressing. For a long time, I felt our performance in the Lions First test was our template moving forward, now it looks more and more like an aberration. It now seems that we really can't look at in all the recent losses since the BIL & Chicago in isolation, because a pattern has formed, and we really have come back to the pack - which is great for World Rugby, shit for us.
Foster has to go.
RM is not the next Dan Carter, in fact, I think its probably been shown that BB is better behind a poor pack. RM has and does go missing when its not working in front of him. We have some issues, not just RM, but right through the whole team & culture. Time for change.
I hope Razor can fix them.RM is a big time downhill skier and he's shown that quite amply over the past couple of months. No ability or even willingness to try and impact the game when it's not being served up on a platter. I also wonder if he has a good enough kicking game to be steering this team around the park. This team is going to get beaten upfront fairly regularly it seems, so we need a 10 who can actually kick a ball in a way that's going to relieve pressure. I don't see that he has this ability.
He is one of many issues. After the Summer of rugby we've had from Henry and Hansen, this Winter is going to be cold and gloomy
Agreed, and I'm not saying that he is solely to blame for where the team currently sits. I'm just saying, with where this team is currently at, he might not actually be the best guy to be steering them around the park (and he's not even steering them to be accurate).
BB runs hot and cold too, not helped by being played at 15 by the Blues and ABs. Legitimate question, who would you pick?
I would pick BB there, TBH. I know he has his issues, but he is the best available option. He is probably our best player and so needs the ball in his hands more. He has a somewhat proven combination with A Smith. Also, he's clearly one of the leaders and decision-makers - he therefore needs to be in a position to effect these decisions. At the moment, I'm not sure we are getting that from RM.
There were a few moments late in the game where Beauden slotted himself at first receiver and Mo'unga was pushed out one. It didn't look particularly planned to me, more like a senior player trying to take control of the game. I've said it before but I absolutely do not believe Beauden is happy being shifted to 15 to accommodate an unproven rookie who keeps going missing when the going gets tough.
Beauden gets shifted because he's probably a better fullback than he is a 10. He got shifted at the Blues too.
They've said numerous times and it is common knowledge that they want the two playmakers, so there is nothing at all strange about him coming in to 1st receiver, hes not doing it because hes having a sulk. if anything he should be doing it more. -
@Kiwiwomble 15s coming into the line to create the extra man has always been a thing. It's just as valid to do that by coming in at 10 and pushing the others out as by looming up on the outside. Even more so if you have played a bit of 10 and can pass.
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@nostrildamus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I get this idea of a double playmaker but
a. it suggests the first playmaker can't do it on his own (unlike most if not all other int. teams) andNot everyone is Dan Carter, of course.
And you might be forgetting he played with a few capable second fives - occasionally standing at 12 himself - in a dual playmaker setup. I believe his first few seasons at the crusaders he was 12 to Mehrts' 10
There's a reason Kiwis call 12 a second five and not inside centre.
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@reprobate said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Kiwiwomble 15s coming into the line to create the extra man has always been a thing. It's just as valid to do that by coming in at 10 and pushing the others out as by looming up on the outside. Even more so if you have played a bit of 10 and can pass.
i understand running into the line, but that normally happens further out and so can catch a defensive line with a kick when they have already come up or just an extra body on a defensive line that might be trying to force inwards
Just coming up at first receiver, so basically a 10 playing at 10...isn't any different than if RM had just stayed there except your basically told him BB's better and now everyone is out of position at the start of the play
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@nostrildamus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I get this idea of a double playmaker but
a. it suggests the first playmaker can't do it on his own (unlike most if not all other int. teams) andNot everyone is Dan Carter, of course.
And you might be forgetting he played with a few capable second fives - occasionally standing at 12 himself - in a dual playmaker setup. I believe his first few seasons at the crusaders he was 12 to Mehrts' 10
There's a reason Kiwis call 12 a second five and not inside centre.
A good argument for moving JB to 2nd five would be that we could have a 2nd playmaker involved more often as he could use many of his tools in that role, and his size as an inside center when required.
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Posted a picture of himself scoring one handed in Sydney with the caption "you're welcome" as a bit of an up yours to us plans who questioned the Wellington fuck up.
Uh right.
Did he post a picture of himself NOT diving on the ball as Argentina took possession right in front of him with "Sorry..." or not?
I’ve been slowly forming a view that we should be selecting Akira in the All Blacks at least as often as we have Reiko... but picking Reiko about as often as we’ve been selecting Akira...
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@Donsteppa said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Posted a picture of himself scoring one handed in Sydney with the caption "you're welcome" as a bit of an up yours to us plans who questioned the Wellington fuck up.
Uh right.
Did he post a picture of himself NOT diving on the ball as Argentina took possession right in front of him with "Sorry..." or not?
I’ve been slowly forming a view that we should be selecting Akira in the All Blacks at least as often as we have Reiko... but picking Reiko about as often as we’ve been selecting Akira...
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@nostrildamus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I get this idea of a double playmaker but
a. it suggests the first playmaker can't do it on his own (unlike most if not all other int. teams) andNot everyone is Dan Carter, of course.
And you might be forgetting he played with a few capable second fives - occasionally standing at 12 himself - in a dual playmaker setup. I believe his first few seasons at the crusaders he was 12 to Mehrts' 10
There's a reason Kiwis call 12 a second five and not inside centre.
Yes DC had his first season At 12 outside Mehrts
It really developed DC quickly as DC was a great defender it worked for the Crusaders very well. -
Broken record time but fark why can't they at least try JB at 12? He had a great midfield combo going with Goodhue at Canterbury. If they seriously think Rieko is a test standard 13 then it's hardly a stretch to think that giraffe can do the job at 12. Shit he'd be far better there than at bloody 14.
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@Chris anyone remember who played 13 outside Carter? trying to get my head around how it worked, was it purely down to DC being DC
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Broken record time but fark why can't they at least try JB at 12? He had a great midfield combo going with Goodhue at Canterbury. If they seriously think Rieko is a test standard 13 then it's hardly a stretch to think that giraffe can do the job at 12. Shit he'd be far better there than at bloody 14.
talk to your Hurricanes coach. That sort of change should absolutely NOT be made at test level
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@Kiwiwomble you summed up the problem better than I did
