Message to Joe Schmidt
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Who would want to be the next coach of the ABs??
Unless next year completely falls in a heap, you have to follow a guy that has been either assistant or head coach through the greatest period of dominance the sport has ever seen, regardless of the world cup result next year.
You come in, and you either continue in the same manner, as everyone expects, and you cop shit for every minor setback. Or the team drops away, and you get blamed for burning the legacy. How the fuck do you win.
If we win the Cup it's even worse.
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@bones said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@sparky said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@snowy Can't see a massive difference between him coaching Ireland and Ted and Steve Hansen coaching Wales before moving to the All Blacks.
How many wins did Wales get?
I just remember Ted being hailed as the Great Redeemer only to be cast out not long after
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@canefan said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@bones said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@sparky said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@snowy Can't see a massive difference between him coaching Ireland and Ted and Steve Hansen coaching Wales before moving to the All Blacks.
How many wins did Wales get?
I just remember Ted being hailed as the Great Redeemer only to be cast out not long after
Henry did well for Wales but Hansen really didn't.
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Which one of Hansen and Ted helped drive the changes in Welsh rugby? Didn't one (or both) get credit for righting that structure?
I'd be keen to see schmidt take the reins, potentially with razor in his team. Too early for razor imo, but he'll be in the mix soon. -
@bovidae said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@hydro11 said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
Henry did well for Wales but Hansen really didn't.
That's being kind. Only 10 wins in 29 tests, and much worse than the coaches before and after him.
To be fair, he was handed a huge shit sandwich. It's not like Henry left the joint in good nick.
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@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
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@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
Great chance to cut your teeth in test rugby without seriously challenging home base
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@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
I said no such thing. I'm merely saying his starting point was basement level. Henry had resigned because of poor performance and Hansen took over a team in a shit situation.
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@canefan said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@sparky said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@snowy Can't see a massive difference between him coaching Ireland and Ted and Steve Hansen coaching Wales before moving to the All Blacks.
To coach a side from 8th to 2nd (nearly top) of the World Ranking is some achievement for Mr Schmidt.
So you CAN change the team culture and get results at the same time! Who knew???!!!
But you already knew that, Rennie did it when he took over the basket case Chiefs.
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If you read between the lines ,
Ireland Rugby media dont sound too optimistic about keeping joe after the WC .
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
I said no such thing. I'm merely saying his starting point was basement level. Henry had resigned because of poor performance and Hansen took over a team in a shit situation.
So to be fair, he took a job where he knew it was a bad situation and he left it in a bad situation.
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It should be written in stone, good for you coaching well overseas, but you gotta serve a few years in NZ before getting the top job, lest you've forgotten the culture and you bring your shit northern play to our glorious game.
Rugby cultures matter massively and Razor has got something that kiwi rugby players like, and respond to
Under 20s, Canterbury and Crusaders so far ( Barbarians too)
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@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
He was handed it. He went to Wales to be an assistant under Ted at the start of 2002 and Ted resigned halfway through the 6N.
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What happens if Gatland's Wales do better than Schmidt's Ireland at the WC?
Does Gatland go to the top of the class?
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@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@act-crusader said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
@rancid-schnitzel “handed”, you make it sound like he went into it without any knowledge of where things were at.
I said no such thing. I'm merely saying his starting point was basement level. Henry had resigned because of poor performance and Hansen took over a team in a shit situation.
So to be fair, he took a job where he knew it was a bad situation and he left it in a bad situation.
His record with Wales was pretty atrocious. I can't remember exactly when he took over from Henry but there was a run of around 17 or 18 matches when they won only three. Those were against Romania, Canada and Fiji. The run included several losses in the 30-40 points margin. He did get some better results at the 2003 RWC with creditable performances, although losses against England and NZ. Wales only beat Italy, Tonga and Canada at RWC 2003.
Edit: As far as I can make out Hansen's Wales only beat the following teams:- Italy 2002 6N, Fiji Romania and Canada 2002 Autumn Inernationals, Romania and Scotland 2003 RWC warm ups, Italy, Tonga and Canada RWC 2003, Scotland and Italy 2004 6N. 31 matches, 10 wins and only 5 wins v Tier 1 opposition - Scotland and Italy.
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@mikethesnow said in Message to Joe Schmidt:
What happens if Gatland's Wales do better than Schmidt's Ireland at the WC?
Does Gatland go to the top of the class?
The perception that Gatland's ego can be a liability, particularly in the press will work against him. The constant needling of the NZRU going back to when he first took over in 2008. His conduct in media conferences during the Lions' tour overshadowed anything he achieved on the field.
Unlike Robbie Deans he isn't beyond rehabilitation. A season or two back in NZ where he proves he can play ball and behave and he would be a consideration for sure.
In many ways the board asking for candidates to nominate their assistants is a great barometer of ego and reputation in the game. If you can get quality coaches to set aside their ambitions and sign up to work under you for 4 years that is a huge vote of confidence. If your only friend in the country is Pat Lam... perhaps not. I have absolutely no idea what a Gatland backroom would look like,
