Bledisloe II - Have a stab at the teams.

broughie

I think there was a bit of karma for the aussie hooker when he got the studs to the face. He actually lead with the elbow diving into Coles.
 
The appearance of what Franks did was awful. 
 
Never known an Aussie team that is not able to keep possession. Loss of player personal and structure. The good old days with Eales and Co I think the ABs were lucky to get 40 percent possession, they had forwards that could run onto the ball in the midfield churning up yards and the backs that knew what to do with the ball. The one time they were able to get in the AB half near the end Folau carved us up. Anyway all they have to offer is niggle now, not that the ABs don't, Hopefully for the sake of the rivalry some talent will come through because they can't rely on the old guard much longer.
 
Just wondering if Barret is not kicking enough on the angle. He seems to kick too front on which may explain his trajectory. Maybe he has learned this to counter the winds of Wellington like hitting a low punch shot in golf.

westcoastie

Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible.
And Franks was 9/10 good? really?
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a>

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="broughie" data-cid="609968" data-time="1472335980">
Never known an Aussie team that is not able to keep possession. Loss of player personal and structure. The good old days with Eales and Co I think the ABs were lucky to get 40 percent possession, they had forwards that could run onto the ball in the midfield churning up yards and the backs that knew what to do with the ball.</blockquote>
 
The ruck wasn't as much of a contest back then. Brumbieleague was in full swing and once you hit the deck there was few opportunities to pilfer. 
People also tend to be overly romantic about that period of Wallaby rugby. We had a number of last-minute wins over the ABs at critical points, and very few dominant performances either on the field or the score board. 
We lost games we should have won, and were probably smarter than the rest of the world about being professional, and therefore fitter and more precise. 
A big part of it was being ahead of our historical curve in terms of playing talent, but most importantly: organisation. It just all came together for a few years, with the right players, coaches, and political willpower at the top. Then it went away. The end. 
Given the cultural changes that were instilled in NZ rugby in the last decade, there isn't going to be much opportunity to challenge that. I don't think AB complacency is an option when the hunger is so great. I mean, there was already a ridiculous winning ratio, and that has only become more ridiculous, yet it's clearly not enough. 
"Just get better!" doesn't apply here in the same way it does there. The number of external forces being applied to rugby aren't even the problem - though they certainly don't help. 
I've heard a story where, at a rare post match function a few years ago, someone let slip how much the top Wallabies are paid in front of some top All Blacks. The Kiwis were agog. These guys were making much more than any AB player, and what had they delivered? 
Not much. Just that in a congested market where players could make money by going to league, or overseas, the hunger for the Wallaby jersey doesn't always override a player manager's desire for the percentage. 
That aside, it's the internal ructions that are the biggest issue. I've been told there are positive moves to help correct the pathways, but the benefits won't be seen for 5-10 years. To me, these changes just look like more elitism.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
<div>
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible.
And Franks was 9/10 good? really?
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
Damn I nearly clicked on that before seeing the Ratpoo part ...please don't link to Ratpoo. ;)

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="609980" data-time="1472338444">
<div>
Damn I nearly clicked on that before seeing the Ratpoo part ...please don't link to Ratpoo. ;)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Should come with a trigger warning.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="609981" data-time="1472339036">
Should come with a trigger warning.</blockquote>
 
This is my safe space.

broughie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="609978" data-time="1472337524">
<div>
 
The ruck wasn't as much of a contest back then. Brumbieleague was in full swing and once you hit the deck there was few opportunities to pilfer. 
People also tend to be overly romantic about that period of Wallaby rugby. We had a number of last-minute wins over the ABs at critical points, and very few dominant performances either on the field or the score board. 
We lost games we should have won, and were probably smarter than the rest of the world about being professional, and therefore fitter and more precise. 
A big part of it was being ahead of our historical curve in terms of playing talent, but most importantly: organisation. It just all came together for a few years, with the right players, coaches, and political willpower at the top. Then it went away. The end. 
Given the cultural changes that were instilled in NZ rugby in the last decade, there isn't going to be much opportunity to challenge that. I don't think AB complacency is an option when the hunger is so great. I mean, there was already a ridiculous winning ratio, and that has only become more ridiculous, yet it's clearly not enough. 
"Just get better!" doesn't apply here in the same way it does there. The number of external forces being applied to rugby aren't even the problem - though they certainly don't help. 
I've heard a story where, at a rare post match function a few years ago, someone let slip how much the top Wallabies are paid in front of some top All Blacks. The Kiwis were agog. These guys were making much more than any AB player, and what had they delivered? 
Not much. Just that in a congested market where players could make money by going to league, or overseas, the hunger for the Wallaby jersey doesn't always override a player manager's desire for the percentage. 
That aside, it's the internal ructions that are the biggest issue. I've been told there are positive moves to help correct the pathways, but the benefits won't be seen for 5-10 years. To me, these changes just look like more elitism.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Obviously you have some insight to Aussie rugby that I don't have. I do think our culture has improved over the past 10 years, probably since our World cup exit to the French, and the pride and expectation of the Black jersey is probably never higher. Probably is easy to romantize but Sharp, Eales, Larkham, Gregan, Burke, Finegan and Kefu knew how to win games and where a good watch.

Siam

So much peripheral stuff from this Wallaby team, and their commentators 
So much pleading with the teacher, Is that a yellow card? after one penalty 
So little actual buckling down and playing decent rugby. 
Frankly its embarrassing to see a double world cup winning, hi pedigree rugby nation carrying on like they do

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

Rattue (and one or two others) bases his ratings on whether he saw a player make a clean break with ball in hand. Owen did that at least once - automatic 2 points.

mariner4life

No citing for the facial stuff? The internet is going to go apeshit

Tim

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11701192'>Steve Hansen denies meeting with referee</a> 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Hansen, who joked this morning that he was "shattered" by Cheika's accusation, said the meeting simply didn't happen. 
"It's quite sad that that's come out because it's not true," he said. "Unless you [mean I said], 'gidday Romain' in the morning because he stayed here at this hotel. I did have a meeting with [assistant referee] Jaco Peyper this week and talked to him at his request with Crono [All Blacks forwards coach Mike Cron] about some of the stuff that he had seen in our game. 
"I'm a firm believer that we're here to support the referees. It's a difficult game to ref so why wouldn't you have a meeting, but I certainly didn't have a meeting with Romain Poite. We don't meet the ref, we haven't for 18 to 24 months because it's just a waste of time." 
Asked where he thought Cheika, who was angry at Poite's performance in the test at Westpac Stadium, and particularly at his alleged refusal to engage with Wallabies skipper Stephen Moore, got the information, Hansen said: "I'm not sure, you'd have to ask Mr Cheika." 
Asked if he was "upset"at the allegation, Hansen said: "Oh, terribly. Terribly. Shattered. We've got to be able to talk about something better than that, surely."
 
</blockquote>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Another issue which may upset Cheika further is the fact that prop Owen Franks has escaped a citing from Sanzaar after footage appeared showing his hand coming into contact with lock Kane Douglas's face in a maul. Cheika suggested it was an obvious foul play incident. 
"I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there is nothing to answer for," Hansen said. "You've got to be really really careful until you see all the views. Social media, I think, were the people who alerted everyone to it and they certainly don't get all the views. 
"There's a process and that process has been followed. 
"In the same game you can go to two or three lineouts where they're driving and the same thing happened. It's an unfortunate byproduct, I think, of mauling, because the only way you can get there is by clambering over the top and then that creates a response. 
"People try to pull them out of the way and the only thing they can use is the head area. We'll look at that and try to ensure we don't go to that area because it creates a problem but if there's no case to answer there's no case to answer."
 
</blockquote>

reprobate

shit eh, i was sure he'd get time off for that. i doubt that his intent was to harm, but he deliberately went near the eyes and he should be done for it.

KiwiPie

1. The aggro looked to be a deliberate plan by the Wallabies, presumably to distract the ABs from their game. I think it worked to some degree.
2. ABs made their usual mistake of throwing hot potatoes wide with a defence rushing up. Once they started to go forward closer to the ruck, there was some space out wide.
3. Scrums were a schemozzle - hate it when refs start throwing our penalties and free kicks without the packs actually doing anything. Just encourages both teams to try and milk it.
4. Watching Mitre 10 Cup and then this game really highlights that with the current laws, some refs just let players get away with anything. There was all sorts of people of their feet, coming in from the side which the ref was happy to let go.
5. Sam Cane is first choice number 7.
6. Cruden with a grubber 5 metres out - no, no, no, just hold onto the ball and wait for the pressure to tell.

Frank

Wonder if McKenzie might be the better long term impact player than Cruden.

Rancid Schnitzel

The aggro looked to be a deliberate plan by the Wallabies, presumably to distract the ABs from their game. I think it worked to some degree.
ABs made their usual mistake of throwing hot potatoes wide with a defence rushing up. Once they started to go forward closer to the ruck, there was some space out wide.
Scrums were a schemozzle - hate it when refs start throwing our penalties and free kicks without the packs actually doing anything. Just encourages both teams to try and milk it.
Watching Mitre 10 Cup and then this game really highlights that with the current laws, some refs just let players get away with anything. There was all sorts of people of their feet, coming in from the side which the ref was happy to let go.
Sam Cane is first choice number 7.
Cruden with a grubber 5 metres out - no, no, no, just hold onto the ball and wait for the pressure to tell.</blockquote>
 
Twas Cruden was it? If I had a cat, I would have kicked it. 
Frank: Agree, Cruden either starts or is out. He isn't an impact sub. McKenzie could be.

pukunui

Yeah, attacking kicks definitely have a place but that grubber from Cruden was a shit low percentage play. 
I don't mind Cruden being on the bench as 10 cover but i don't think they should be using him as an impact sub unless things need to be changed up dramatically. If Barrett is going well the he should play 80 at 10.

akan004

Cruden's little chip kicks annoy me no end. We were three metres out from their line after the quick tap from TJ and he decides to chip on the first phase. Patience and phase play would have eventually broken them. Did the same last week as well.

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe II - Have a stab at the teams.