Bledisloe II - Have a stab at the teams.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="609920" data-time="1472330333">
<div>
Now, Douglas doesn't react. But that doesn't excuse the actions of Franks. Another angle might help h him. 
If the situations were reversed, no doubt some on here would be talking about what a tough nugget the AB player was, to carry on in spite of the dirty eye gouging convict. ;)
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</blockquote>
 
Speaking of Douglas, I was surprised more wasn't said post-match about his action on Read, when Read was yellow-carded for collapsing the maul at 74 mins last week. At best it was a clumsy clean-out and a penalty, at worst a flying heatbutt and citing.
 
I expect Franks will have some time off himself.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="609938" data-time="1472332858">Speaking of Douglas, I was surprised more wasn't said post-match about his action on Read, when Read was yellow-carded for collapsing the maul at 74 mins. At best it was a clumsy clean-out and a penalty, at worst a flying heatbutt and citing. 
I expect Franks will have some time off himself.</blockquote>
 
There were a few ruck clean outs that were definitely not "plane taking off" but "plane landing". In a couple of cases it was " plane smashes into tarmac" 
Also, remember the neck roll thing from RWC2015? That seems to have fallen by the wayside a little in the games I've seen this year. 
That's the problem with adding things to the refs list - other things get forgotten. 
Though Poite at least did call "use it" at rucks. Mostly Australian ones as we dithered over the ball

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="609928" data-time="1472331713">Just having a read of the match thread at g and <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The hardest part of the All Blacks current generation of dominance isn't that they dominate (they always do) but that they act like a sack of shit while they do it. Constantly offside, constant cynical fouls, blatant cheating for all but Poite. But its more than the cheating, its the attitude. Even the great McCaw, who lived on 1 Offside St, was a top bloke in every other respect. Dane Coles pretty much summed up the Kiwi attitude these days when he did his best to blind and choke Douglas. On top of that you booed the bloody kicker. You goddamn arrogant twats.</blockquote></blockquote>
 
Hahaha Oh wow. I guess every forum has someone like that. Or is Kearns posting there now?

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="609947" data-time="1472333369">Hahaha Oh wow. I guess every forum has someone like that. Or is Kearns posting there now?</blockquote>
 
There is more than 1, probably because the population of gagr is larger than here. They've all got a solution, too.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="609947" data-time="1472333369"> 
Hahaha Oh wow. I guess every forum has someone like that. Or is Kearns posting there now?</blockquote>
 
He must be posting under a lot of user names if it is him, the mods should cracking down on that.

broughie

I think there was a bit of karma for the aussie hooker when he got the studs to the face. He actually lead with the elbow diving into Coles.
 
The appearance of what Franks did was awful. 
 
Never known an Aussie team that is not able to keep possession. Loss of player personal and structure. The good old days with Eales and Co I think the ABs were lucky to get 40 percent possession, they had forwards that could run onto the ball in the midfield churning up yards and the backs that knew what to do with the ball. The one time they were able to get in the AB half near the end Folau carved us up. Anyway all they have to offer is niggle now, not that the ABs don't, Hopefully for the sake of the rivalry some talent will come through because they can't rely on the old guard much longer.
 
Just wondering if Barret is not kicking enough on the angle. He seems to kick too front on which may explain his trajectory. Maybe he has learned this to counter the winds of Wellington like hitting a low punch shot in golf.

westcoastie

Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible.
And Franks was 9/10 good? really?
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a>

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="broughie" data-cid="609968" data-time="1472335980">
Never known an Aussie team that is not able to keep possession. Loss of player personal and structure. The good old days with Eales and Co I think the ABs were lucky to get 40 percent possession, they had forwards that could run onto the ball in the midfield churning up yards and the backs that knew what to do with the ball.</blockquote>
 
The ruck wasn't as much of a contest back then. Brumbieleague was in full swing and once you hit the deck there was few opportunities to pilfer. 
People also tend to be overly romantic about that period of Wallaby rugby. We had a number of last-minute wins over the ABs at critical points, and very few dominant performances either on the field or the score board. 
We lost games we should have won, and were probably smarter than the rest of the world about being professional, and therefore fitter and more precise. 
A big part of it was being ahead of our historical curve in terms of playing talent, but most importantly: organisation. It just all came together for a few years, with the right players, coaches, and political willpower at the top. Then it went away. The end. 
Given the cultural changes that were instilled in NZ rugby in the last decade, there isn't going to be much opportunity to challenge that. I don't think AB complacency is an option when the hunger is so great. I mean, there was already a ridiculous winning ratio, and that has only become more ridiculous, yet it's clearly not enough. 
"Just get better!" doesn't apply here in the same way it does there. The number of external forces being applied to rugby aren't even the problem - though they certainly don't help. 
I've heard a story where, at a rare post match function a few years ago, someone let slip how much the top Wallabies are paid in front of some top All Blacks. The Kiwis were agog. These guys were making much more than any AB player, and what had they delivered? 
Not much. Just that in a congested market where players could make money by going to league, or overseas, the hunger for the Wallaby jersey doesn't always override a player manager's desire for the percentage. 
That aside, it's the internal ructions that are the biggest issue. I've been told there are positive moves to help correct the pathways, but the benefits won't be seen for 5-10 years. To me, these changes just look like more elitism.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
<div>
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible.
And Franks was 9/10 good? really?
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a>
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</blockquote>
Damn I nearly clicked on that before seeing the Ratpoo part ...please don't link to Ratpoo. ;)

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="609980" data-time="1472338444">
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Damn I nearly clicked on that before seeing the Ratpoo part ...please don't link to Ratpoo. ;)
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</blockquote>
 
Should come with a trigger warning.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="609981" data-time="1472339036">
Should come with a trigger warning.</blockquote>
 
This is my safe space.

broughie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="609978" data-time="1472337524">
<div>
 
The ruck wasn't as much of a contest back then. Brumbieleague was in full swing and once you hit the deck there was few opportunities to pilfer. 
People also tend to be overly romantic about that period of Wallaby rugby. We had a number of last-minute wins over the ABs at critical points, and very few dominant performances either on the field or the score board. 
We lost games we should have won, and were probably smarter than the rest of the world about being professional, and therefore fitter and more precise. 
A big part of it was being ahead of our historical curve in terms of playing talent, but most importantly: organisation. It just all came together for a few years, with the right players, coaches, and political willpower at the top. Then it went away. The end. 
Given the cultural changes that were instilled in NZ rugby in the last decade, there isn't going to be much opportunity to challenge that. I don't think AB complacency is an option when the hunger is so great. I mean, there was already a ridiculous winning ratio, and that has only become more ridiculous, yet it's clearly not enough. 
"Just get better!" doesn't apply here in the same way it does there. The number of external forces being applied to rugby aren't even the problem - though they certainly don't help. 
I've heard a story where, at a rare post match function a few years ago, someone let slip how much the top Wallabies are paid in front of some top All Blacks. The Kiwis were agog. These guys were making much more than any AB player, and what had they delivered? 
Not much. Just that in a congested market where players could make money by going to league, or overseas, the hunger for the Wallaby jersey doesn't always override a player manager's desire for the percentage. 
That aside, it's the internal ructions that are the biggest issue. I've been told there are positive moves to help correct the pathways, but the benefits won't be seen for 5-10 years. To me, these changes just look like more elitism.
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</blockquote>
 
Obviously you have some insight to Aussie rugby that I don't have. I do think our culture has improved over the past 10 years, probably since our World cup exit to the French, and the pride and expectation of the Black jersey is probably never higher. Probably is easy to romantize but Sharp, Eales, Larkham, Gregan, Burke, Finegan and Kefu knew how to win games and where a good watch.

Siam

So much peripheral stuff from this Wallaby team, and their commentators 
So much pleading with the teacher, Is that a yellow card? after one penalty 
So little actual buckling down and playing decent rugby. 
Frankly its embarrassing to see a double world cup winning, hi pedigree rugby nation carrying on like they do

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="westcoastie" data-cid="609972" data-time="1472336810">
Just read Rattues player ratings on NZ Herald, lol'd because I didn't even realise Will Skelton got on the field... completely invisible. 
And Franks was 9/10 good? really? <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701155</a></blockquote>

Marty

Rattue (and one or two others) bases his ratings on whether he saw a player make a clean break with ball in hand. Owen did that at least once - automatic 2 points.

mariner4life

No citing for the facial stuff? The internet is going to go apeshit

Tim

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11701192'>Steve Hansen denies meeting with referee</a> 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Hansen, who joked this morning that he was "shattered" by Cheika's accusation, said the meeting simply didn't happen. 
"It's quite sad that that's come out because it's not true," he said. "Unless you [mean I said], 'gidday Romain' in the morning because he stayed here at this hotel. I did have a meeting with [assistant referee] Jaco Peyper this week and talked to him at his request with Crono [All Blacks forwards coach Mike Cron] about some of the stuff that he had seen in our game. 
"I'm a firm believer that we're here to support the referees. It's a difficult game to ref so why wouldn't you have a meeting, but I certainly didn't have a meeting with Romain Poite. We don't meet the ref, we haven't for 18 to 24 months because it's just a waste of time." 
Asked where he thought Cheika, who was angry at Poite's performance in the test at Westpac Stadium, and particularly at his alleged refusal to engage with Wallabies skipper Stephen Moore, got the information, Hansen said: "I'm not sure, you'd have to ask Mr Cheika." 
Asked if he was "upset"at the allegation, Hansen said: "Oh, terribly. Terribly. Shattered. We've got to be able to talk about something better than that, surely."
 
</blockquote>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Another issue which may upset Cheika further is the fact that prop Owen Franks has escaped a citing from Sanzaar after footage appeared showing his hand coming into contact with lock Kane Douglas's face in a maul. Cheika suggested it was an obvious foul play incident. 
"I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there is nothing to answer for," Hansen said. "You've got to be really really careful until you see all the views. Social media, I think, were the people who alerted everyone to it and they certainly don't get all the views. 
"There's a process and that process has been followed. 
"In the same game you can go to two or three lineouts where they're driving and the same thing happened. It's an unfortunate byproduct, I think, of mauling, because the only way you can get there is by clambering over the top and then that creates a response. 
"People try to pull them out of the way and the only thing they can use is the head area. We'll look at that and try to ensure we don't go to that area because it creates a problem but if there's no case to answer there's no case to answer."
 
</blockquote>

reprobate

shit eh, i was sure he'd get time off for that. i doubt that his intent was to harm, but he deliberately went near the eyes and he should be done for it.

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe II - Have a stab at the teams.