All Blacks v Wales Test #3

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Milk" data-cid="589947" data-time="1466399270">
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If that was the case I'm not sure Kaino would have started over Dixon, Cane over Ardie, and Lima would have started by now. From what I've seen, once you've been in the environment for a while they reward All Blacks form over Super Rugby form.
 
 
 
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That's not strictly the same as what I'm saying. And I think it would silly to discount Super rugby when assessing how a 10 controls a game - Five definitely got in through his exploits in Super rugby and AC shared the 10 role with DC during our unbeaten run with is likely in part due to his steering the Chiefs to two championships.

Bones

I think people are underestimating Sopoaga's attacking game. He's deceptively quick and very good at identifying and exploiting space, probably plays quite a bit flatter than Barrett. 
No reason why he couldn't have a big impact off the bench.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="589972" data-time="1466404300">
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I think people are underestimating Sopoaga's attacking game. 
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He won a game for us in South Africa. That shit takes some doing, even now. Even more so last year.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="589972" data-time="1466404300">
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I think people are underestimating Sopoaga's attacking game. He's deceptively quick and very good at identifying and exploiting space, probably plays quite a bit flatter than Barrett. No reason why he couldn't have a big impact off the bench.
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Am sure he can have a big impact, but BB has set that bar pretty damn high!

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="589972" data-time="1466404300">
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I think people are underestimating Sopoaga's attacking game. He's deceptively quick and very good at identifying and exploiting space, probably plays quite a bit flatter than Barrett. 
No reason why he couldn't have a big impact off the bench.
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 I think its also about if they want to replace someone in the back 3 ,
 
but hanson seems to have cleared that up by saying they can move Barrett from 10 .

reprobate

i think an impact sub at 10 doesn't necessarily have to be a ball-runner. lima can run anyway, but a big part of what he has done so well for the highlanders, and arguably better than the other contenders, is play to a plan and kick accurately from hand (and for goal) controlling the game. sure running opportunities present themselves more against tired opponents, but so too does more space exist to kick, catch 3/4s out of position and grind opposition into the ground. eg if you've got a lead to defend, the ideal sub 10 isn't a runner, it is someone with a booming clearance who can control territory.
i reckon people get a bit trapped into thinking that just because in recent times we have done something one way and it has been successful, that is the only way to do things; so right now people think we need a big hard-hitting guy at 12 and an organiser at 13. but guys like tim horan can be pretty handy at 12 too. we spent a long time with big strong combative 'extra loose forward' halfbacks, then along came aaron smith. 
which is all just a long way of saying that lima would be fine on the bench if barrett starts - and yes, you have exactly the same amount of cover as you would if the roles were reversed.

Canes4life

My team would be:
 
1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Patrick Tuipolotu (Rettalick has done nothing wrong but it will be great to see the big tank get a run)
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Elliot Dixon (Deserves a crack on his own patch)
7. Sam Cane
8. Keiran Read
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Waisaki Nahalo
12. Ryan Crotty
13. Malakai Fekitoa
14. Ben Smith
15. Israel Dagg
 
"The Finishers: 16. Codie Taylor 17. Wyatt Crockett 18. Charlie Faumaina 19. Liam Squire 20. Ardie Savea 21. TJ Perenara 22. Lima Sopoaga 23. Seta Tamanivalu

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590016" data-time="1466414096">
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 I think its also about if they want to replace someone in the back 3 ,
 
but hanson seems to have cleared that up by saying they can move Barrett from 10 . 
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If they start Barrett that seems likley, they'll sub on Lima & take off Dagg, moving Barrett to 15
 
I still think its even money we'll see Ben Smith wearing 13 again by the end of the year.

Provincial Stalwart

Reprobate, you're thinkin' what I'm thinkin'.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Milk" data-cid="589950" data-time="1466399838">Also this: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11659418">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11659418</a> 
:)</blockquote>
"Posted by Steve Hansen". Haha, imagine the shit fights he'd get into if he posted on the Fern.

DMX

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="589870" data-time="1466383302">I just don't understand your train of thought. 3 tests series are the best. I love it that there is a third test. If it was 1 each I would be bitterly disappointed that there was no third test</blockquote>
 
Agree to disagree , I would far rather see how we match up against England for example. 3 tests against same team too much unless it's the Lions for me.

JayCee

any word on Ngatai's status?

kiwiinmelb

I personally would start Lima for no other reason than I would like to see more of him at this level to see how he goes , But understand the coaches wanting to reward Barrett, he really has developed into a very important player for us

pakman

Shag reported as saying CN still out. I think it's worth giving Dixon a shot. Haven't heard how Fekitoa's knee is.
 
If it were me I'd go with:
 
Franks/Canes/Crockett (brings more go forward and counter for Jenkins)
BBBR/Sam W
Cane/Dixon/Read
Aaron S/Lima S
Moala/Fekitoa
Naholo/Smith 
Dagg
 
Bench:
Charlie F/ Moody/Harris or Taylor/Savea/Kaino/TKB/Crotty/BB
 
Suspect the wise men will have Dixon on bench, BB starting and Moala lucky to be in 23, with Crotty starting.

pakman

Edit: Coles for Canes

rotated

I reckon the reason for Barrett over Lima is 20% respect/morale/reward for BB. The other 80% is the midfield is such a mess and is priority number one to fix maintaining stability in and around it is vital. Better to select the safest pair of hands and the one who knows the system the best. Hansen backs Barrett to do that - and fair enough too.
 
We just don't have the leadership in the backline to break in a rookie first-five and a new midfield combination that resembles a tinder date gone wrong.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="589883" data-time="1466385528">
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Have the coaches said anything about Harris being selected ahead of Taylor for the first 2 tests?
 
Because unless they have, I think everyone's assumption that Taylor is ahead in the pecking order is a bit premature.
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When the squad was announced Hansen was asked that. His response was Harris was picked because you don't lose your place due to injury. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590131" data-time="1466458439">
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When the squad was announced Hansen was asked that. His response was Harris was picked because you don't lose your place due to injury. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
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I agree it is very much not a ringing endorsement of Taylor.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="590126" data-time="1466457076">
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Suspect the wise men will have Dixon on bench, BB starting and Moala lucky to be in 23, with Crotty starting.
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Yep - Moala wasn't selected in the initial squad, so I reckon he'll only make the bench if Fekitoa is injured.
 
I think any deficiencies in the midfield are being a bit over-egged. On Saturday Fekitoa injured himself after 26 seconds - left the field for a dozen minutes. Came back for 25 minutes and got subbed at halftime. I didn't really see him indulging in much that could be described as "headless chookery". He got penalized for the shepherd - on the other hand he did what was required to allow Dagg to score. Mostly he wasn't very involved and was probably struggling with injuries.
 
I'm not sure I've really seen us try to use the midfield directly from the set piece. The first test we seemed largely intent on kicking for the wings to counter the rush defense. Other standard plays are bringing the wings into first/second receiver and using them to bust the line or set a target.

reprobate

it's not the midfield wales have been busting through, and while it's not like we've looked creative or dangerous there, our guys haven't really made too many glaring errors up against roberts and davies who are both pretty good players and a well established combination.
combinations take time and we've been pretty spoilt for a long time now - you can't expect a new pairing to immediately have anything approaching the nonu-smith welly/canes/ABs combo. i'd be happy to give them a pass mark so far, though i still do think crotty is a better 13 than 12.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Wales Test #3