All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
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@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Also not related to the kicking, but on-field decisions: the tap we took instead of a scrum - that was a penalty rather than a free kick - for Itoje off his feet. Pretty poor decision after winning scrum penalties.
All our poor decisions may be related to a newish group who are trying to find their way (although with a bunch of the old leadership group still there, you wonder why they can't expedite the learning process). We appear to be trying to force the play much of the time, or get undone with poor decisions or simply poor execution. And yet I thought the group that closed the test played a closer brand of percentage rugby to that which I want to see. We are making progress in baby steps, hopefully sometime this tour we can put all the pieces together and open up a can of whoopass on someone. Preferably before we get to Italy
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@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I think the whole thing looks premeditated too if you look at Jordan and Jordie on the inside.
I do think this is a good point, same as what you say about a lack of patience. Personally I also think attacking kicks are better as part of a pre-meditated move rather than off counter-attack, as was the case here, as you need to catch the defence off guard in order to actually get a kick through.
But it's also still the case that you're up against a really well-organized defence outside of their 22. I can't imagine the English defence breaking down by Barrett having a carry and Ioane running an arc in this scenario. The defence is constantly thinking on its feet as well: they are looking for ways to isolate the Kiwi attackers and pressuring the breakdown, and all of the best cleaners are on the other side of the ruck.
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@Mauss said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I think the whole thing looks premeditated too if you look at Jordan and Jordie on the inside.
I do think this is a good point, same as what you say about a lack of patience. Personally I also think attacking kicks are better as part of a pre-meditated move rather than off counter-attack, as was the case here, as you need to catch the defence off guard in order to actually get a kick through.
But it's also still the case that you're up against a really well-organized defence outside of their 22. I can't imagine the English defence breaking down by Barrett having a carry and Ioane running an arc in this scenario. The defence is constantly thinking on its feet as well: they are looking for ways to isolate the Kiwi attackers and pressuring the breakdown, and all of the best cleaners are on the other side of the ruck.
Tele'a didn't seem to respect English defence that much...
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@nostrildamus That's fair. "Give the ball to Mark" seemed to have been as good a strategy as any.
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Not just the ABs
I find it fascinating that teams will elect to put in a box kick down the short side from a scrum and/or ruck when on their own 40
A good execution may take you to the opposition’s 30-22m where invariably they will gather and either kick straight back or run it back
Alternatively a pass into midfield could see the 10, 12, 13 going for a 50-22
A far higher % of success IMHO
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@Mauss Yeah look it's not like it's a chance gone begging or anything, but it is a good attacking position (on both sides), on the 2nd phase after a turnover, with us behind on the scoreboard - spend some time there ball in hand, get a penalty I'd be happy with.
I felt the English were good but not great defensively, we were making metres and scoring tries, and they were not making heaps of turnovers - not good enough in my eyes to justify kicking that sort of ball away. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
spend some time there ball in hand
To be honest, that's pretty much exactly what Jason Holland said during the halftime interview - "We'll look to make England make some tackles when we got the ball" - so Barrett might have gone a bit off script at times.
I still think the kick-option was on in the second example. Gardner wasn't penalizing English transgressions so maybe Barrett felt they needed to score quickly off turnover ball. The real bad decision was his kick around halfway when it went dead: it was poor execution but also just not the right time for it.
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Are the All Blacks doomed to a 70% flatline?
Having been spoiled by the giants of the past, New Zealand have been caught up by the rest of the world.
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Looooool was that written by Razor's personal PR arm?
What a ridiculous fucking "article"
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@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Jesus, so Razor’s record is on Fozzie?
Fuck me days, the media was so up Razor’s ass now they have to pedal a new story when he comes in and doesn’t turn out to actually be the messiah.
Has Razor inherited a 22-man black hole?
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@Mauss said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I think the whole thing looks premeditated too if you look at Jordan and Jordie on the inside.
I do think this is a good point, same as what you say about a lack of patience. Personally I also think attacking kicks are better as part of a pre-meditated move rather than off counter-attack, as was the case here, as you need to catch the defence off guard in order to actually get a kick through.
Potentially thats the reason this was a grubber - the intention was more to kick toward space with a bit of pace, the desired result being either a defensive lineout 5 out or one of the the chasers regathering.
Pre-meditated and counter-attack aren't mutually exclusive, especially second phase counter-attack.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Jesus, so Razor’s record is on Fozzie?
Fuck me days, the media was so up Razor’s ass now they have to pedal a new story when he comes in and doesn’t turn out to actually be the messiah.
Has Razor inherited a 22-man black hole?
We’ve already had the cantab mafia changing the tune from shit coaching to shit cattle, but this is another step forward using the Barry Schwartz approach (the secret to happiness is low expectations).
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@Mauss said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I know there’s a lot of criticism on this forum towards the incessant turn to kicking by Barrett in this game, but, rewatching the game, I’d argue that the kick-option was the right choice a lot of the time, but it was Barrett’s mixed execution of his kicks which led to mixed outcomes.
Absolutely agree. I posted during the half time break that he was picking his moments pretty well but that there needed to be better execution.
IMO there were only two kicks that were ill advised and not only could he have put the ball through hands, when he did kick he advanced to the line and didn’t give himself space to even provide the opportunity to execute a better outcome.
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@booboo reckon we’re on similar pages.
attacker without the ball makes contact with a defender just standing his ground: penalty - obstruction
Defender moves off his line to tackle/or more often just shoulder charge a player without the ball running at a gap - penalty - tackling player without the ball
But not sure I love the bball charge analogy - rewards defenders who rush into the lane late and plant their feet with a penalty. That should just be play on - provided both players are not actively seeking contact
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@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Jesus, so Razor’s record is on Fozzie?
Fuck me days, the media was so up Razor’s ass now they have to pedal a new story when he comes in and doesn’t turn out to actually be the messiah.
Oh no, he is still the messiah. He just doesn't have the right
red and blackdisciples yet.
