Depth at 10
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@voodoo said in Depth at 10:
@bovidae said in Depth at 10:
I haven't read the match thread yet but I take it RM has come in for plenty of criticism.
The wider problem to me is that the way we play in SR isn't the best for developing how a 1st 5 needs to play in test rugby. Mo'unga, especially, always has much more time and space behind the Crusaders forward pack than he will ever get at international level. It's no surprise that he has looked best for the ABs against Aust, who play a similar style to NZ.
None of the NZ SR teams employ the same aggressive rush defence that the NH teams and SA do. We really need to start using this defensive system ourselves so our players can adapt to playing against it.
Having a larger, more robust 1st 5 can be an advantage so Sullivan could be an option. He needs a couple of years playing there for the Blues to answer that question.
So, Jordie then....
Or Havili?
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@gt12 or TJ could re-invent himself at 10...
but gee the cupboard is bare.
I think both RM & BB have the ability, but our forwards arent giving them the platform they need, plus they dont have a plan b when the platform isnt there, which is a coaching issue, but tbf, both struggle at super when the heat is on too, so yeah.
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@taniwharugby said in Depth at 10:
@gt12 or TJ could re-invent himself at 10...
but gee the cupboard is bare.
I think both RM & BB have the ability, but our forwards arent giving them the platform they need, plus they dont have a plan b when the platform isnt there, which is a coaching issue, but tbf, both struggle at super when the heat is on too, so yeah.
I actually quite liked him at 10 the couple of times I saw him there for the Hurricanes. Incredible short-passing game (as one would expect)
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I hope Dmac concentrates on 10 in Japan as insurance for NZ. He has the best vision and skill set. Zarn Sullivan Harry Plummer and Campbell Parata from Ta$man look to be the ones with most upward potential for me.
Richie M is still gaining test experience and may improve markedly. He just needs to develop his vision and organise those around him to exploit gaps and create opportunities. Currently he let's the game come to him until he sees a gap he can run into himself. -
@arhs said in Depth at 10:
I hope Dmac concentrates on 10 in Japan as insurance for NZ. He has the best vision and skill set. Zarn Sullivan Harry Plummer and Campbell Parata from Ta$man look to be the ones with most upward potential for me.
Richie M is still gaining test experience and may improve markedly. He just needs to develop his vision and organise those around him to exploit gaps and create opportunities. Currently he let's the game come to him until he sees a gap he can run into himself.This is the best explanation of my problem with Mo'unga, although honestly it seems to be a problem with the whole team of 'drivers'.
They react to what is in front of them rather than creating.
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I'm of the view that Mo'unga is actually a pretty bloody good player. I've seen him play a lot of good games, including against decent opposition, including when the Crusaders haven't been super dominant up front. I've also seen the Crusaders go very rapidly to shit against teams they would normally beat comfortably, when RM doesn't play through injury.
He played very poorly tonight.
I think some of that is pressure and getting up to speed with the higher level, and I think a bigger part of it is being part of a dysfunctional team, who doesn't know who there first choice line-up is, or what is expected of each of them, or who is in charge. The dual playmakers with BB and RM was shit as both were used to being the lead voice, and sharing it just confused the issue. It worked better with DM at fullback, but then they went for JB (after playing him on the fucking wing for christ's sake), and then chopped and changed between RM and BB. It's been a mess.
And the midfield is musical chairs.
And we've been using multiple halfbacks and #8s.Frankly it reminds me of Pat Lam coaching the Blues.
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@reprobate said in Depth at 10:
I'm of the view that Mo'unga is actually a pretty bloody good player. I've seen him play a lot of good games, including against decent opposition, including when the Crusaders haven't been super dominant up front. I've also seen the Crusaders go very rapidly to shit against teams they would normally beat comfortably, when RM doesn't play through injury.
He played very poorly tonight.
I think some of that is pressure and getting up to speed with the higher level, and I think a bigger part of it is being part of a dysfunctional team, who doesn't know who there first choice line-up is, or what is expected of each of them, or who is in charge. The dual playmakers with BB and RM was shit as both were used to being the lead voice, and sharing it just confused the issue. It worked better with DM at fullback, but then they went for JB (after playing him on the fucking wing for christ's sake), and then chopped and changed between RM and BB. It's been a mess.
And the midfield is musical chairs.
And we've been using multiple halfbacks and #8s.Frankly it reminds me of Pat Lam coaching the Blues.
Ouch.
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Mo'unga was poor last night and sadly not for the first time in the Northern Hemisphere. He struggled with both decision making and skill execution. It wasn't just that he was struggling with the rush defence. There was no passion or urgency to his play. He didn't drive the game at all. Perhaps, he just doesn't enjoy playing in Europe?
Given the next World Cup is in France, Beauden Barrett will obviously be first-choice 10. I would be looking to develop other players like Mitchell Hunt, Josh Ioane or Otere Black as back-up First Fives for the RWC.
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@arhs said in Depth at 10:
...Richie M is still gaining test experience and may improve markedly. He just needs to develop ...
After four years an All Black and 33 matches? Of course ... 🤣🤣
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@sparky as I was reminded earlier Black has left the building.
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@mick-gold-coast-qld said in Depth at 10:
@arhs said in Depth at 10:
...Richie M is still gaining test experience and may improve markedly. He just needs to develop ...
After four years an All Black and 33 matches? Of course ... 🤣🤣
We've experienced his experience and he doesn't look like a World Cup player.
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@crazy-horse Hope the Hurricane pick him up. They are showing a lot of faith in Aidan Morgan and Reuban Love.
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Our pack laid a platform today and the backs didn't know what to fucking do with it
Our 2 tens are the same player, one just has more experience. I think BB is.all sorts.of ordinary but he's clearly the better test player
Both should be sent away to watch Aaron Cruden film, a player with less talent, less size, but at least knew how to attack in test football.
Running sideways is for kids.
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@taniwharugby said in Depth at 10:
@gt12 or TJ could re-invent himself at 10...
but gee the cupboard is bare.
I think both RM & BB have the ability, but our forwards arent giving them the platform they need, plus they dont have a plan b when the platform isnt there, which is a coaching issue, but tbf, both struggle at super when the heat is on too, so yeah.
The problem for both RM and BB is mainly their inability to kick themselves and the team out of trouble. This means they can only really only run or shovel on bad ball.
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@junior said in Depth at 10:
@taniwharugby said in Depth at 10:
@gt12 or TJ could re-invent himself at 10...
but gee the cupboard is bare.
I think both RM & BB have the ability, but our forwards arent giving them the platform they need, plus they dont have a plan b when the platform isnt there, which is a coaching issue, but tbf, both struggle at super when the heat is on too, so yeah.
The problem for both RM and BB is mainly their inability to kick themselves and the team out of trouble. This means they can only really only run or shovel on bad ball.
This. BB has never really had a good long kicking game, has he? I always wonder why he takes penalties for touch with his pop-gun boot when his younger brother has a howitzer.
Last night, every time the ABs gave away a penalty, the French line kicker would put the ball back to or in the AB 22m. Huge territorial gains. It is small wins like this that the ABs need to focus on. When given the opportunity, surely it is worth grabbing 50m of territory rather than 20m!
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Bergus Furke (for the life of me I can't say it the right way around) was backup 10 for Saders last year.
Is there any potential there? Did he play NPC (I saw f-all)?
Bit of talk around McClutchie. Anyone who isn't @Stargazer got an opinion on his future?
Also previous age group hype around Rivez Reihana. What's the story with him?
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
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@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Bergus Furke (for the life of me I can't say it the right way around) was backup 10 for Saders last year.
Is there any potential there? Did he play NPC (I saw f-all)?
He struggled a bit. Doubt he'll have much impact on Super Rugby next year
I suspect the Crusaders 10's will be ranked in this order:
Richie Mo’unga, David Havili, Simon Hickey, Fergus Burke -
@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Bergus Furke (for the life of me I can't say it the right way around) was backup 10 for Saders last year.
Is there any potential there? Did he play NPC (I saw f-all)?
He struggled a bit. Doubt he'll have much impact on Super Rugby next year
I suspect the Crusaders 10's will be ranked in this order:
Richie Mo’unga, David Havili, Simon Hickey, Fergus BurkeThe fact that the Crusaders have Hickey in their squad tells you everything we need to know about the depth of ten in NZ. (All the best to him, seems like a good guy, but....)
We are stuck with these two guys and now have a desperate need to develop a third now DMac (basically RM lite) is gone overseas. ABs need to pick a young guy they think has the game for Test rugby (ignore Super Rugby form, it just gives us more players like RM) and get him ready.
Good luck <insert eye roll emoji>
