Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November
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None of us want to see guys sent off, but I guess the challenge is that unless you have severe penalties like a red, even for accidental poor tackles, then you probably don't drive the change in technique in the same way. Do teams spend hours re-learning how to tackle lower if the penalties are less?
I dont know the answer, but I can see the rationale.
And to state the obvious, I dont think that malicious play like punching or biting etc is considered in the same light, certainly not after the fact anyway when it gets to the judiciary.
No easy answers
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Winger said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
I personally don't like it
Why not.
because for me, and this is just my personal opinion, red cards should be for serious foul play. Neither one on the weekend meet my threshold for that.
yeah im with you on that ,
maybe im selfish but I would like to see something not quite so harsh that it ruins the game as a spectacle for the fans
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@mariner4life yeah it's a tough one.
Priority 1 - health and safety of players
Priority 2 - maintain the integrity of a a full contact sportSo, here's the thing. If Priority 1 is the H&S of players, then that applies to everyone equally - whether they are on your team or not, and as a ball carrier you have a responsibility to protect yourself.
So:
- dropping your player on their head from a lineout lift = card (didn't look after teammate)
- dropping your head into a tackle = card (didn't look after yourself) (also - see AWJ in Lions 3; JK copped a YC)
- Does poor tackle technique like putting your head in front of a runner and knocking yourself out mean you should cop a penalty/card for not protecting yourself?
I'm tongue a bit in cheek (well very in cheek), but I am making the point that H&S is not the only driver here. If it was then any act to affect another player or yourself would be stomped on and it's not.
Head high tackles look bad, and (it appears) are being reduced in incident rate fairly rapidly. However, you have the fundamental issue that rugby is a gloriously chaotic crazy impact sport where collisions happen in tight spaces with milliseconds to react. It's damn hard.
Finally, after sober viewing, I think Ofa could have got away with a yellow, but you can't argue too much with a red. Contact to head = red. Aussie Swinton, though, seemed not to be interested in arms, so was probably a double red (if that even existed; no arms, contact to head)
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@kiwiinmelb i'd like to see everything short of deliberate foul play or punches dialled back a step,
so like scrums and single off sides kind of stuff is a free kick (repeated becomes a penalty), poor form or accidents become penalties and then leave the cards for the really grievous stuff
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Kiwiwomble based on what I have seen in this years M10 Cup, Fakatava and Nock would be the 9's I'd like to see more of, but sadly both have had limited chances at Super level for various reasons, although being back up at your Super team doesnt always stop you getting into the big kids team!
Fakatava has a good passing game and very strong defensively, Nock has a great passing game, kicking game is up there, very quick and seems to be defending more this year too.
What's made A Smith so great is that he does the fundamentals so well. When he first entered the team, he had basically no running game and his box kicking was still very much a work in progress. But, the excellence of his passing game, and the way it made the players outside him better, meant that we could afford to have some quite "limited" at halfback. Obviously, since then, A Smith has been able to build a solid running game and kicking and added a bit of play making ability too. Now he's probably universally recognised as our best ever halfback - all built on an outstanding passing game.
In short, where I am getting to is that we need to identify the young guy with a similarly strong passing game and, to the extent necessary, build other skills on top of that foundation over time. What we definitely don't need are any "4th loose forward" type halfbacks who will just end up taking time and space away from the excellent players outside him. (OK maybe that's a nice squad option to have for wet conditions.)
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@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
I always go to that comeback v Ireland where SMith's pass and workrate was crucial to that last several minutes that lead to the try.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
Bachop was very good at clearing the ball from memory. We then had Marshall, Byron, Piri, TJ that were more physical players. I think the current game demands quick accurate passing and box kicks, these are two of the most important features of a test 9. Unfortunately, TJ lacks both. I really hope one of our young 9's can step up. Guess it is hard when TJ and Smith have pretty much locked up 2/5 franchises for years.
I don't hear much talk about Hall and Drummond yet they have been involved in one of the best functioning teams in a long time.
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foster had a quick pass too.
When you have world class 10's then just getting them the ball on the front foot has to be the priority...if your 10 is "acceptable" then you might need someone with some other options
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@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
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@Kiwiwomble Post it on the thread!
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@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior Time for a poll:
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4300/best-passing-young-halfback
booth and christie are both 26 arent they, only a couple of years younger than TJ
good call - Smith 31, TJP 28, Booth 26, Nock 24, Fakatava 20
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Ofa does need a technique adjustment. He is fairly tall. Tall enough that if he is standing in his normal braced position to push off for hit it doesnt take much of a dip or other interference for the aim to get high.
Yep. Tackle technique is down to the individual, and I don't think the players height is an excuse. You don't see Whitelock, BBBR, etc getting regularly penalised/carded for high tackles.
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@Bovidae said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Ofa does need a technique adjustment. He is fairly tall. Tall enough that if he is standing in his normal braced position to push off for hit it doesnt take much of a dip or other interference for the aim to get high.
Yep. Tackle technique is down to the individual, and I don't think the players height is an excuse. You don't see Whitelock, BBBR, etc getting regularly penalised/carded for high tackles.
Yep. You don’t see them standing upright with slightly bent knees waiting to put in a shoulder.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Hooper was pretty clear in his press conference, we don't train to tackle the head, so it shouldn't happen in the game, players need to be better.
and i absolutely don't disagree with that. I have a problem with a tackle gone wrong being the same punishment as a full-blooded punch. I am very aware i am in the minority there though
Is it a tackle gone wrong though? Does he look like a guy in a position to make a tackle, or look like a guy in a position to get a good shoulder on someone's chops? He's turned his head away too, which certainly can't help.
So Ofa gets a red, but probably not a lot else in terms of suspension. Dollars to doughnuts he won't forget that and will be working to change.
If he'd straight up punched him instead, do you really think the punishment would have been the same? I don't.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
@junior lets not forget it had been a long time since we had a 9 with a great pass and the workrate of Smith, who knew his role was to clear the ball from every ruck, we had 4th loose forward 9's for many years, so Smith was a bit of a revelation at the time
I always go to that comeback v Ireland where SMith's pass and workrate was crucial to that last several minutes that lead to the try.
Couldn't agree more on both fronts.
We would not have won that match without Smith's quick passing at the death, which simply did not give the Irish defence any time to properly set and repel our attack.
Separately, there's a reason why people still remember and talk fondly about G Bachop.
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@Gunner said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Fuck I hate this hometown replay crap!
Where were the endless replays of the high hit on Cane earlier?
But fuck you are dumb SB!
I missed this at the ground. Completely missed it.
Thought the crowd was whinging at play being called back for a knock on by White.
Then I saw a caption on the big screen about being off feet and SB wandering off.
Will need to look at the recording.
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Ha. Consecutive posts:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
Clear YC
@number9 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:
How the hell is that a yellow?
