All Blacks v France Test #2
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@booboo the French centre reckons it was partly BBs fault....
Doumayrou conceded it was "the straight application of the regulation" but felt the match officials should have taken into account that there had been "a fault of the All Blacks" with Fall "unbalanced" while challenging for the ball.
Was going to wait until tomorrow, but had a few so what the hell.
ALB certainly helped Fall to his final destination quicker than he expected.
Not a legal person but I think that's what the Americans call an 'Accesory After The Fact'
Nothing Fall could have done to avoid the collision with BB
Fall was focussed on the ball the whole time, as was BB
Many have commented that Fall would never have made the catch.
It could be argued that BB knew the only way he could make the catch was to leap above the oncoming player and put himself at the mercy of the collision.
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@MiketheSnow Fall could have avoided the collision by checking his run. The current laws have actually outlawed "only having eyes on the ball". They've mandated that players must be more aware when chasing high balls. And that's what he was doing - chasing, whereas Beauden was fielding the kick. The duty of care is on the chaser.
They did that to stop players clattering into their opposition while staring at the sky and then claiming innocence.
I don't for a second believe Fall intentionally tried to injure Beauden. But as it stands Beauden landed on his head and was concussed.
And you can bet your ass next time Fall is chasing a high ball like that he will check his run and avoid the collision, which is exactly the behaviour WR is trying to encourage with this.
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@mikethesnow said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@booboo the French centre reckons it was partly BBs fault....
Doumayrou conceded it was "the straight application of the regulation" but felt the match officials should have taken into account that there had been "a fault of the All Blacks" with Fall "unbalanced" while challenging for the ball.
Was going to wait until tomorrow, but had a few so what the hell.
ALB certainly helped Fall to his final destination quicker than he expected.
Not a legal person but I think that's what the Americans call an 'Accesory After The Fact'
Nothing Fall could have done to avoid the collision with BB
Fall was focussed on the ball the whole time, as was BB
Many have commented that Fall would never have made the catch.
It could be argued that BB knew the only way he could make the catch was to leap above the oncoming player and put himself at the mercy of the collision.
So he couldn't have turned his eyes in the general direction he was running and realised he was going to be beaten to the ball and pulled out? How did all the other players in the match manage to properly judge aerial contests then?
Its a pretty simple situation. Time your run right and get in the air to properly contest or pull out and wait for the guy to safely land. Blindly running to where the ball is going to land and being surprised you take out a jumper is not an option.
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@no-quarter I’ve seen matches where two players have accidentally knocked each other and they’re from the same team. What happens if one of them lands funny?
We’re currently using the strongest sanction for something that has way too many variables for an accurate decision of fault. This thread is an example of that, some posters believe he had no chance at getting to the ball and others believe he did.
Like I said earlier, if safety is paramount ban jumping.
The way this is ruled now is starting to remove the competition for the ball - which is one of the key aspects of rugby.
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@nepia Fall was never getting that before BB, peripheral vision helps alot, how did he avoid other players but not be aware of where BB was if he couldnt pull out?
I have no issue with the RC as it was dangerous, however as I said earlier, in an incident like that, I feel that FRance get to send a replacement on after 10/20 mins, but that guy is out of the game.
IMO, RC for the rest of the game should be for punches, kicks, gouges etc, these are different and as such should be treated differently and he will now likely be punished further when he fronts up to the judiciary.
Otherwise as it turned out last night, the French guy was punished, as were the rest of both teams and the millions that chose to watch it.
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@no-quarter I’ve seen matches where two players have accidentally knocked each other and they’re from the same team. What happens if one of them lands funny?
We’re currently using the strongest sanction for something that has way too many variables for an accurate decision of fault. This thread is an example of that, some posters believe he had no chance at getting to the ball and others believe he did.
Like I said earlier, if safety is paramount ban jumping.
The way this is ruled now is starting to remove the competition for the ball - which is one of the key aspects of rugby.
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Like I said earlier, if safety is paramount ban jumping.
The way this is ruled now is starting to remove the competition for the ball - which is one of the key aspects of rugby.
Banning jumping isn't really an option - when you're running both feet are off the ground through each stride so technically you'd be jumping. And innumerable other circumstances where penalizing someone for jumping would be absurd.
You only have to look at the injury wards of the various Super teams to realize that efforts to make the game safer are necessary. Players need to get their heads around situations where they can and can't compete for the ball in the air.
One thing that isn't being ruled sensibly is basing the sanction on whether the guy lands on his head or not.
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Ngatai got a YC for this one, and IIRC Gardner says his landing has affected colour of the card, the fact he has done a full somersault saved Ngatai a red.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@nepia Fall was never getting that before BB, peripheral vision helps alot, how did he avoid other players but not be aware of where BB was if he couldnt pull out?
I have no issue with the RC as it was dangerous, however as I said earlier, in an incident like that, I feel that FRance get to send a replacement on after 10/20 mins, but that guy is out of the game.
IMO, RC for the rest of the game should be for punches, kicks, gouges etc, these are different and as such should be treated differently and he will now likely be punished further when he fronts up to the judiciary.
Otherwise as it turned out last night, the French guy was punished, as were the rest of both teams and the millions that chose to watch it.
That's an interesting idea worth pursuing. Right now it's 10 minutes or game. Maybe something Inbetween? 20 minutes.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@nepia Fall was never getting that before BB, peripheral vision helps alot, how did he avoid other players but not be aware of where BB was if he couldnt pull out?
I have no issue with the RC as it was dangerous, however as I said earlier, in an incident like that, I feel that FRance get to send a replacement on after 10/20 mins, but that guy is out of the game.
IMO, RC for the rest of the game should be for punches, kicks, gouges etc, these are different and as such should be treated differently and he will now likely be punished further when he fronts up to the judiciary.
Otherwise as it turned out last night, the French guy was punished, as were the rest of both teams and the millions that chose to watch it.
That's an interesting idea worth pursuing. Right now it's 10 minutes or game. Maybe something Inbetween? 20 minutes.
Ten minutes for the player but then he has to be subbed off for the rest of the game. Moriarty's actions this morning should still be a straight red.
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I wonder what the injury data is for leaping collisions is.
Does the data identify that the landings are an area that needs urgent attention? A strong history of serious spinal injuries?
If it's a high risk situation then only red would be reasonable, but to a cynic like me, the random landing deciding the colour of a card looks like window dressing.Then again, legislate heavily for aerial contests and you lose a thrilling feature of the game.
Wonder what the grass roots injury data is for aerial contests?
To be fair though the behaviour modification in contested kicks over the last 5 years appears to have been improving, albeit a few instances like yesterday.
Hate 14 vs 15
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Went to the game and watched the replay last night. Looked waaay tidier onscreen compared to watching live, where it was disjointed and a pretty average watch. Some good periods but those felt few and far between. RC pretty much killed the vibe in the stadium.
Felt like we thought it'd be easy to crack them afterwards but France amped up and our accuracy and patience went to shit.
Don't blame the ref but am liking these ideas of taking the player off and allowing a replacement after 20min. So there is a clear punishment, but we don't totally ruin the contest.
Deliberate foul play should still get the status quo though. -
@paekakboyz said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Looked waaay tidier onscreen compared to watching live
My god it must have been truly appalling at the ground then!
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@snowy it was some ragged ass shit bro. Probably the worst live AB performance I've seen. Kept waiting for us to kick up a few gears but it just never happened.
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@paekakboyz said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@snowy it was some ragged ass shit bro. Probably the worst live AB performance I've seen. Kept waiting for us to kick up a few gears but it just never happened.
I think social media told a massive story. Usually I get inundated with selfies from people at the game, last night I got none!
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Haven't read the thread only just watched the game. Really nice of them to dedicate it to Shields with it being at the tin and him getting his first start. Toaster hands all around.
Yep was just thinking that after I watched England and Shields get mullered.
Right now Aus doesn't look that crash-hot either.Reckon come RWC time 40% of this current AB team won't be there, and the main challenge will come from the Boks.
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@shadowtrooper so they're going to drop 6-7 starters and 3-4 off the bench? Who?
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@paekakboyz said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Went to the game and watched the replay last night. Looked waaay tidier onscreen compared to watching live, where it was disjointed and a pretty average watch. Some good periods but those felt few and far between. RC pretty much killed the vibe in the stadium.
Felt like we thought it'd be easy to crack them afterwards but France amped up and our accuracy and patience went to shit.
Don't blame the ref but am liking these ideas of taking the player off and allowing a replacement after 20min. So there is a clear punishment, but we don't totally ruin the contest.
Deliberate foul play should still get the status quo though.It was pretty morgue like after the red card, eh. Was actually bored, highlight was moody try.
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@taniwharugby I agree with you that red card should be reserved for kicks and punches etc.
But, I think people are forgetting the speed of rugby game - if you're running tracking a ball that you think you're getting to there may only be a split second before you realise that you're not going to make it. I think it can come down to luck, then it's luck again depending on how a guy lands whether you go off for 10 minutes or for the whole match. Then there's the jump forwarders (not saying BB did this but it happens) who cut out the space but are actually the ones causing the danger, yet it's always the lower jumper/on the ground guy who gets sanctioned.
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