@Stargazer said in Hurricanes 2023:

@mikey07 said in Hurricanes 2023:

@Stargazer Yeah look what he did for the Lions forward pack which is essentially the Canes forward pack anyway.

Uhm, Wellington may have the largest representation in the Canes overall and in their forward pack, but the majority of Hurricanes forwards doesn't play for Wellington.

Aumua, Numia, Blackwell, Bird, Kirifi, Delany, Lakai are all in the Lions squad, and will all likely play big mins next year for the Canes. That’s a good chunk of the Hurricanes forwards even when you don’t include Savea and Coles. I know there are also a lot of quality forwards from Manawatu, BOP and HB that will complete for positions. Would have been good to have Fish on board, better option than Mackintosh.

I see what @mikey07 is saying though. That Lions lineout was top notch. The way Delany, Bird and Blackwell played this year was a level above previous seasons and big ups must go to Tito for that.

@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.

Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).

@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.

Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.

Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.

So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.

Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.

At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.

That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed

The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.

…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw

Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.

Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.

But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.

Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.

Tell that to the world's best golfers, runners, skiers, tennis players etc etc all use specialist coaches to find improvements and correct faults. I think you may be well out of touch with the modern professional sporting world.
Sports people are often too busy on all the other aspects of performance to coach themselves even if they were bio-mechanical and technique experts.

Disagree, yeah things have changed a fair bit in the professional era... but the same principal still applies, the players are the ones that are out there playing no matter what the sport is, not their coaches... it's up to them to put the real hard yakka in to get their technique right to execute well, sure you can get good ideas from coaches & other players too, then use the best parts from them that suit you.
All the top sportsmen should be always looking to improve, which makes them focus in keeping up their high standards.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say.

Seems to be that hard yakka alone will improve technique (which is incorrect)

I've had enough of banging my head against this wall.

Of course it's more than just about hard yakka, it's obviously a combo of things... if a player has a poor habit or technique the problem has to be identified first, then the player has to have the mindset to want to change to a technique that works for a certain skill.

Coaches can also stuff up a players natural game, which is why you want to get info from other players too & use the best parts for yourself - you were talking about other sports, one of the most unusual techniques I've seen in sport would be Andrew Jones in cricket hitting 4's while both his feet were off the ground, you wouldn't recommend it, but it worked great for him... the first time Jones went to Aussie their media were taking the piss out of him in the buildup matches, but he had the last laugh scoring a hundred in the 1st test.

Yeah, this debate is just going around in circles, no point debating it anymore.

@Stargazer said in Barbarians U21 v Hurricanes U20:

@Bovidae Seen my post? Broughton just confirmed what his team mates posted on social media.

Something specific? He didn't go into details in the interview.

There were a lot of Canterbury players in the Barbarians.

@ploughboy going from today’s result it looks like you have enough talent to pick from.

This is pretty cool from the Canes sending Thrushy off.

@Stargazer said in Hurricanes Under 20s vs Blues Under 20s:

@cgrant That depends on where he was born (maybe he was born here), but yes, he may have French nationality. Whether that makes him consider himself French, is another matter entirely.

I'll bet it does if it involves getting a lucrative Top14 Contract under the "local player" classification.

How annoyed must the Canes be about having to set a scrum with 2 mins left?

Had the ball and momentum. Injury stoppage meant time ticked along as scrum was set and reset, and then got hit with a penalty. Don’t begrudge stopping as that Force player looked stuffed. A real sliding doors moment for the game and season.

@cgrant I be pleased if Lomax does, I really got on his wagon we first arrived at Tasman, just loved how he scrummed, had a back so straight you coauld put a cuppa on it, but took a while to really come through. I from old school that reckom a real straight back allows the power coming through from behind to go where it sholud.

Good we got 5 points... Drua were appalling though, they try to play too much 7's rugby in this comp, that's never going to work well in 15's.

@antipodean said in Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

@NZbloke said in Brumbies vs Hurricanes:

Canes made some pretty poor handling errors... but disappointing to lose to a dour Brumbies team that lack imagination.

It's a clear contrast in styles and speaks to where rugby is at: Brumbies don't "play" rugby; they play for territory and set piece (read lineout) opportunities. Canes are the opposite but don't have the cattle to secure possession; average backrow and poor skills means they give up the ball.

Brumbies carry the ball less than almost any other team in the comp and when they do they hardly offload. It's about minimising errors. Boring to watch but effective.

I'm looking forward to watching them play the Blues because the Blues have a vastly better backrow and are playing a more rounded style of game.

You don't have to play boring safe rugby to win, reckon the best way to win matches is a balance of good forward play & attack with your backs when it's on, you're giving yourself a lot more attacking options, that's the main reason why the Crusaders have won so many Super titles over the years.

Nothing wrong with Canes backrow, they clearly have the skill sets... in general we just didn't play that well overall.

Brumbies use to be really robotic when George Gregan was their halfback... as we know he use to basically execute very short inside passes all day long to either a forward or back running up the middle, use to be utterly boring crap.

@Canes4life said in Hurricanes v Reds:

@NZbloke said in Hurricanes v Reds:

Was bloody annoying that the ref pinged us heaps in in the first 15-20 minutes on 50/50 calls, so was hardly surprising the Reds went out to a pretty big lead in that period... at least after that the ref started to ping both sides.

Yeah it was a dodgy first 15 by the refs, I mean how the hell did they miss that crooked throw by the Reds? One of the worst misses I’ve ever seen. What made it worse was that the Reds gained a penalty a few phases later which got them on the front foot.

That's for sure, in the first quarter the ref let the Reds get away with a lot of stuff - gave them a huge advantage starving us of ball... from a penalty they could either have a crack at a 3pointer, or kick the ball out 40-50 metres downfield & then have the throw in to the lineout as well.

Canes desperately needed those 5 points to stay in the mix, other than that we didn't get that much benefit out of the match... MPs lack of depth is really hurting them, they were very poor at the breakdown & awful at defending the rolling maul, at times they were ok at scrummaging.

When Canes get back to playing one match a week we should be looking to field our best team each week, play all our best combinations together, which will give us far better flow in our game, making the Canes much more of a threat.

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@gt12 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@antipodean said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@bones said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@cgrant said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

It was a very kickable penalty. How many chances to get the 3 points : more than 70% IMO. How many chances to score a try via the lineout ? 20% maybe ?

I'm struggling to understand this concept that it's impossible for the canes to win in normal time, yet so much more acceptable they'd win in extra time. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Trying to score from something they're bad at (lineout - maul) against a team excellent at defending a maul. Extra time provides unstructured opportunities which is something the Canes are reasonable at.

It's not just a maul though. Even if you don't score from the maul, you should be able to recycle and get an unstructured opportunity 5 metres out.

Did they..?

Going for the lineout has less than a 50% chance of success, so can't use the fact it failed to prove your point. It has to be based on the likeliness at the time.

Let me get this logic right: A Canes lineout has more chance of losing possession that winning it, so it's better to attempt that to its inevitable conclusion (as we saw), than to force other opportunities?

No. The lineout has less than 50% chance of leading to a try. Obviously, we have more than 50% chance of winning the ball back.

Ok. A Canes lineout has more chance of not leading to a try than scoring one, so it's better to attempt that to its inevitable conclusion (as we saw), than to force other opportunities?

Yes. Going to golden point also has more chance of losing than winning.

There's only two teams competing in golden point...

Yes, but the Crusaders are a far better team, thus giving them a greater than 50% chance of winning in golden point. I don't believe you think the Hurricanes are as good as the Crusaders, or would be as likely to win from that point.

Even if you think golden point is a 50/50, Jordie still has to kick the goal to take us there. Unless you give him a 100% chance of doing so, there was a sub 50% the Hurricanes won from that position.

I understand now. You weren't going to win so why delay the inevitable, get it over in normal time!

That’s exactly what I’m reading too.

We’ll only get one chance as we aren’t good enough. Fair enough.

What I find hilarious is that the Canes were 6/10 against the Saders for line outs won.

But the kick is the risky option.

Our lineout is much better than that normally though.

Ahhh that poor display must have contributed to J. Blackwell's dropping from the side that fronted against Moana Pasifika.

@machpants

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@nzbloke said in Moana Pasifika vs Hurricanes:

You're sounding like a broken record

You are the absolute world champ at ironing.

This competition is looking more and more amateur every week dealing with these restrictions.

@cgrant said in Hurricanes vs Highlanders:

@bones
A midfield combo with the two twin brothers could be fun but it won't happen under Foster's management.

Ardie and Julian?

@canes4life said in Blues vs Hurricanes 02/2022:

@pakman I think you need another angle to safetly say there was no doubt it went over. Those images are far too blurry to suggest that it definitely went over.

My technological skills are inadequate to get clear pictures on Fern, but if you run the tape back and forward there’s no doubt.

It doesn’t change anything, except maybe the referee’s association should ask the touchies what they were doing!

@act-crusader said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

@pakman said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:

Just watched first half. Canes right on top. Crazy score at 16-12. Chch didn't do much right, one try ought to have been ruled out for forward pass, lucky only to have one in bin. Canes should have had at least 6 more on board. Canes 16 - Chch 5 would have been fairer reflection. Amazing!

So we came from 16-5 down to win? Makes the win that little bit more sweeter. Onwards and upwards. Get on the bandwagon, Tony Johnson certainly has 😉

Second half 26-20 to Chch. Hard to argue with too much with it. That said, had Ardie's try stood (thought the decision of no try was correct) doubt Canes would have leaked those quick tries.

Had Canes taken their chances they would have won, but that's rugby.

Take aways for me:

Canes backline play electric;

Jordie MOTM for me; but

Chch pack (maul especially) is their matchwinner.

Match highlights:

@duluth said in Hurricanes v Blues (pre-season):

@kiwimurph

Oops, yes I forgot

it's Northland, totally understandable

Old Hurricanes promo video. Didn't know where else to post it and didn't want to derail the 2023 thread.

Can't remember seeing this before; it's hilarious.

@gt12 said in Hurricanes v Reds:

I didn’t comment on the penalty try, I commented on whether he should be given a YC.

In that position i.e. in-goal, you can't really have one without the other under the current framework.

@stargazer haha that's great.

That loop de loop try is one of the more embarrassing things I have seen on a football field

@mikey07 nah, we're battlers.

@toddy said in Waratahs v Hurricanes:

@machpants Like TJ vs Namibia?

Haha! When I saw MPs comment I immediately facepalmed thinking of that. Way to read the room...

@canes4life said in SRA Round 10: Highlanders v Hurricanes:

@siam I saw that live too but it wasn’t that bad after seeing it on the replay.

Yeah I don't think any of it was bad either but they seem to apply the letter of the law very arbitrarily. This time "beyond horizontal" made way for "retaliation".
I've given up making sense of what they're trying to officiate

Screen Shot 2021-04-25 at 21.18.07.png

@bones Nah my old man told me when I don’t know why he was watching it..I’m assuming the commentary team said it.

@kiwiwomble said in SRA U20: Hurricanes U20 v Highlanders U20:

Nice power play use yellow for our announcement, put the canes on the back foot right from the start

Yellow is nicer than what I thought it was - lemon.

@cgrant Higgins had more knock-ons, missed tackles and other handling errors, but in the highlights alone he misses the tackle that leads to the second Chiefs' try, butchers a try scoring opportunity by dotting down too early (short) and is offside for the failed intercept attempt (giving away 3 points). He didn't have a great first half (even the commentators mention it several times), but his second half was better. His second try was the result of some good quick thinking; his first was created by Godfrey and he basically only had to dot it down. No doubt he has talent and definitely a good work rate, but the second half highlights are flattering him and he definitely wasn't the best back on the field. That was Godfrey by a country mile, but unfortunately, you can't see that in the highlights.

@mikey07 You may be rights about that 5-year-contract haha.

That team was meant to have a player from each NPC province, and I think there is apart from Manawatu. Sweeney had a long career after this. 😉

@canes4life said in Blues v Hurricanes:

@winger well enough isn’t good enough though. Or is that what we’ve come to expect these days?

I didn't have an issue at all with the way he played. The main issue is the first 5. Even more so than Blackwell. Until this is addressed the team will continue to struggle

The Highlanders match shows what a quality first can do

@mikey07 I have learned something new today, Jensen is a recognised Maori name! Looks like he might be eligible for one of the Scandinavian teams as well.
I'm sure @nepia will agree that the names Gemmell, Wakefield and Blake over our way are also recognised Maori names too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@nepia said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@chris said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@frank said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@antipodean said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@bobily2 said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@antipodean said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@bobily2 said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@antipodean said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@frank said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

@tim said in SRA Round 4: Hurricanes v Chiefs:

DMac needs to start at 10 for the Chiefs.

DMac needs to be given more time at 10, and maybe given another try at 10 for the ABs.

Fuck right off.

He did well at 10 against France in his first start there. One of the best games I've seen from an AB 10 over the last 4 or 5 years

Is that a joke? The France game where they had one foot on the plane already?

Jesus christ one good half against a shit Canes team and people are calling for him to be five-eighth for the All Blacks.

It's not like every player looked amazing against that French team. He stood out more than most.

And I've been calling for it for awhile (perhaps s not on this forum). Based on much more than one game.

I'll change my position when he continuously displays a calm demeanour on the field instead of his usual headless chicken act. Yes he played well today in the second half. It was against the Canes. A little perspective.

Mo'unga handily contributed to us losing against the Poms with his pathetic defense leading to the first try. Beauden has had a million chances but struggles in tight games where he just shovels it sideways. Both are good in space though.

McKenzie may be no better, but it's not like either Mo'unga or Barrett are brilliant options. Both have their limitations.

Oh, and McKenzie is a better goalkicker than both of them.

Not sure McKenzies has any better front on defence at First Five he was average a few times in the Canes match so not sure what you are gaining there nothing I reckon.
The chiefs coaches must have thought the same they shuffled him to the wing a fair bit in defence so the big boys couldn't run at him down that channel.

I think DMac is probably more willing to throw himself in front of the big boys and he usually slows them down, but that's just an impression I get.

I thought Mounga was strong defensively against the Blues he pulled off some crucial tackles against the Blues big boys as well.

@nepia I've actually thought of a potentially logical reason for the change.

When they converted from yards to metres they presumably changed the distance to the front of the lineout from 5 yards to 5 metres.

Which would have required the thrower to chuck it an extra .468 of a yard - which is probably about the size of a hooker's foot + the width of the touch line.

@duluth How is there an argument on this? The ref under that post is surely the only one who can see if has gome between the uprights! FFS I a Canes man but can't believe anyone seeing it on tv or somewhere in ground thinks they got better angle. There are getting to be some serious whingers in our our game!

@stargazer said in Highlanders vs Hurricanes pre-season:

@machpants With Hickey gone, the Canes basically only have one ten, JGB, who is pretty average. Leger is a midfielder, Jordie and Love are fullbacks. Just shit recruiting.

But surely your not surprised....

Photosport gallery:

210213 Game of 3 Halves - Preseason - Images | Photosport New Zealand 210213 Game of 3 Halves - Preseason - Images | Photosport New Zealand