All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
Possibly a harsh assessment, but there were definitely times where we put ourselves under pressure or lost opportunities with inaccurate kicking. Against a stronger side eg SA they will punish us. The Argues handling (in very poor conditions) let us off the hook a few times.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
Possibly a harsh assessment, but there were definitely times where we put ourselves under pressure or lost opportunities with inaccurate kicking. Against a stronger side eg SA they will punish us. The Argues handling (in very poor conditions) let us off the hook a few times.
I wrote it earlier in the thread, but I seem to recall it was at least 20+ minutes before our first box kick/kick from TJP, and that was more of a pop kick over the line as they were off balance, and we had a strong chance to contest. Overall I barely remember more than one or two. The long kicks weren't always completely accurate (not by much), but they can work on that
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
You claimed he was a defensive powerhouse..
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You brought up how there were no linebreaks/turnovers insinuating this was Riekos doing.
So you agree he was ineffectual in attack, conceded the most turnovers and was a spectator in defense with a grand total of 2 tackles all game.
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You know you could clarify what you meant instead of pivoting to insults.
I said what I meant, not the various different words you tried to pretend I said. I don't think it's worth conversing about Rieko with you, you've clearly made up your mind he provides no value and look at all the stats and stats only to prove it!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
This isn't a dig at Rieko's game last night because I thought he did ok, but a couple of matches ago the comms mentioned he hasn't scored a try this year. Is that right?
I'm interested to see him getting slated here. For most of the game he wasn't given the ball anywhere he could do anything with it. The coaching appears to have both midfielders playing close and straight to open the field for the looping player (see Jordan's try last night)
Other time Jordie just shuffles him the ball right at the line.If we are going to play like that it's a complete waste of his talents.
Agreed - in that scenario you describe, he should be the looping player so that he space in which to use his pace.
He's too good not to have in the starting XV. The problem is our attack is to structured in a way to use (at all) his biggest strength, which is his pace. He is not big enough to get the ball so close to the defensive line and still make meters, nor is he a good enough stepper (he is more of a server, which needs a little bit more space and to be at full pace).
I think re-structuring our backline attack with a bit more depth to give everyone a bit more space is what is needed to get the most out of Reiko, as well as the other outside backs. I do not see Reiko moving back to the wing because I just don't think he is good enough under the high ball for a modern winger.
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90% vs 64% for him
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I think Razor made the changes just to give players minutes.
He said he wanted to give some players time in other positions (i.e., the versatility he bangs on about). Specifically, BB, Jordan and Ioane.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Snowy said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
44 Test tries now for Beauden Barrett. It's some career he's having.
He should have broke Howlett's record ages ago.
He had scored 36 tries from 2013-2019. An average of 5+ a year.
He has only scored 8 in the 5 seasons since the 2019 RWC despite being undroppable.
How much of that time did he spend playing at 10?
Played 10 2016/2017/2018.
2019 was dual pivot rubbish with Mo'unga.
And he has basically been a fullback ever since.
Beaudie has started 30 tests at fullback for 8 tries:
- 3 in 2024 (1 try)
- 10 in 2023 (2 tries)
- 3 in 2022 (0)
- 4 in 2020 (0)
- 8 in 2019 (4 tries)
- 1 in 2013 (1 try)
- 1 in 2012 (0)
He has started 56 tests and 1 non-test at 1st 5 for 28 tries:
- 5 in 2022 (1 try)
- 7 in 2021 (2 tries)
- 1 in 2020 (0)
- 2 in 2019 (0)
- 11 in 2018 (8 tries)
- 14 in 2017 (6 tries)
- 11 in 2016 (8 tries)
- 1 in 2015 (1 try)
- 5 in 2014 (2 tries)
He has come off the bench in 42 tests for 8 tries:
- 2 in 2024 (0)
- 1 in 2023 (0)
- 3 in 2022 (1 try)
- 6 in 2021 (1 try)
- 2 in 2016 (1 try)
- 7 in 2015 (2 tries)
- 7 in 2014 (0)
- 10 in 2013 (3 tries)
- 4 in 2012 (0)
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
To be fair, Rugby Jesus getting off was down to the TMO due to the "sudden change of height" ...
And obviously very hard for "Madiba" Kolisi to adjust his height accordingly given that he only had 20m to lineup Ardie before giving him a flying headbutt...
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@Bones said in [All Blacks v Argentina II]
I said what I meant, not the various different words you tried to pretend I said. I don't think it's worth conversing about Rieko with you, you've clearly made up your mind he provides no value and look at all the stats and stats only to prove it!
Where did I pretend?
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Or shall we just ignore the lack of change out wide for Argentina, the extra space out wide for black, the fuck all line breaks and turnovers in the midfield?
So in the context of discussing Rieko you insinuated he was the reason for 'fuck all line breaks and turnovers in the midfield'.
Rieko had the 2nd least tackles made (Jordie made 3x as many) in the entire backline but you are giving him all the credit for shoring up the midfield defense?
Rieko had the most turnovers in the entire team but you are giving him credit for the midfield turnovers supposedly being eradicated?
You're triggered by my stats so what's your alternative? Do you have some intangible evidence I'm not aware of that somehow makes what you said above true?? If you think I'm naively only looking at stats educate me and tell me what I'm missing.
Otherwise if not, maybe don't just spread false narratives that can be easily falsified by a quick look at what actually happened in the game.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz like I said, no point conversing with you. Added bonus points to that for the word "triggered", definitely not worth conversing with people who use that to describe someone not sharing their opinion.
Someone earlier claimed Rieko was the only one who played poorly.
You replied saying BS and provided all your reasons why.
I provided direct counters that (I felt) invalidated your reasons.
You refuse to engage back and defend your position because apparently I have made my mind up (even though you never provided a single counter to even ascertain whether my mind could be changed).
Very convenient that when you don't have any valid justification for your opinion it's only because I am so bad faith that you refuse to engage. As opposed to you not being able to defend your original positions without looking disingenuous or misinformed.
Makes the whole point of a rugby forum and 'discussion' pointless but if it makes you feel better to die on that hill go ahead.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
Still haven't provided a single counter.
All the best 👍 -
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
I respect your right to disagree. Unfortunately World Rugby says your viewpoint is incorrect
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
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under current interpretations that was a definite yellow.
but
my problem with that interpretation is, just based on that still alone, the highest body part a the point of contact was the shoulder of the tackled player. if there was slightly less force from both players (a change in direction sent the tackled in to the tackler much quicker) then there is no sanction. He's essentially carded for going too hard. I hate that.
agree that the lesson here is aim at the bottom of the ribs and end his night while you stay on the field, and have the games most replayed highlight.
