Thoughts on Cane now?
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Yep if Barrett plays 6 I agree possibility there will be no 7 on the bench.
I assume Savea moves if Dalton injured and they will have a 6/8 on bench.
If SB remains at 6 then there needs to be specialist 7 on the bench. If the other player covers 6/8 then you have all three loose forward positions covered. It is hard to know without any scrums but watching the English test again it looks like Sotutu took over the openside role, as he was the player attending breakdowns. Savea remained wider.
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@No-Quarter I attach no more value to Fern MOTM polls than to player ratings in the media. There's little objectivity in them.
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I appreciate that mate,but sorry I just see Akira going missing a lot and I wish he would run harder on to the ball instead of those stop start runs.
He frustrates me as he has potential to be an amazing athlete.Agreed.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
only if you ignore MOTM performances, right.
He hasn't kicked on, but he has played some storming games in black.
I honestly don't remember any 80 min MOM performances in black.
And I am not being a smart arse.@Chris @Stargazer here you go guys, I know this will be tough reading for you both, but will hopefully job your memory a bit.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
This is from 1 year ago. Guess you guys have pretty short memories?
Did you double and triple vote a few times.
I really rate your contributions on here mate, you know your shit and are involved in the game from grass roots up. I'm just staggered as to how you (and many others in fairness) seem to have such a blind spot for Akira's performances in black. He's been by far our best and most consistent 6 in the past few years. I think it's a real failure of the AB coaches to not utilise his strengths more and get him playing like he did in those games more consistently. I was hoping Ryan would help with that, but he seems to have just pushed him aside which is frustrating to see.
Blind spot?
He hasn’t been by far our best and most consistent 6. To say that is a blind spot. I think he has the highest ceiling, is the best athlete and has probably played the best games (Frizell Bok 2 this year argues).
But he simply hasn’t reached those heights in the tight ones, vs the harder, stronger opposition.
You can talk about unseen work etc, but Savea manages to shine every game. As did Papalii on the EOYT.
He plays in a position which can shine every match. But simply doesn’t. Which is a shame. As I’d say it’s close to unanimous on TSF that we want him to be one of first names on the sheet. Which is for sure, his potential.
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@MajorRage those MOTM polls I posted above are from 6 consecutive games where he was either MOTM or in the mix. After that he wasn't as prominent, not bad, just didn't stand out as much and he immediately just cops it for not being the best player on the pitch. Meanwhile a player like Frizzel puts together I don't know how many performances in a row where he doesn't really feature, but continues to get selected, and people start saying he's a better option. This year Akira was dropped for Frizzel despite being one of our better players after coming back from injury at a time when most of the ABs were under performing, and has barely had a chance since to get any form/confidence. If we all accept Akira has the highest ceiling, then why the hell isn't he getting consistent gametime to reach his potential given how often he's been a stand out for us in recent time? No other 6 in the country has come close. As I said, it's a failure of the coaches to utilise the strengths of one of our most talented players. Very frustrating to watch.
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@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I'm not sure it matters - we had 3 locks in our pack on Saturday, plus another couple of jumping options, and we failed to steal one throw off England.
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@Stargazer said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter I attach no more value to Fern MOTM polls than to player ratings in the media. There's little objectivity in them.
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I appreciate that mate,but sorry I just see Akira going missing a lot and I wish he would run harder on to the ball instead of those stop start runs.
He frustrates me as he has potential to be an amazing athlete.Agreed.
I disagree completely on the MOTM polls, they are far more objective than one idiot journalist rating players from a game. Yeah there's bias, but most posters will choose the stand outs as evidenced by one-eyed Chris throwing Akira votes. I actually think those polls are the best gauge of who the real MOTM was for the ABs anywhere on the internet.
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Anyway sorry for derailing the thread, just some of the stuff I read about Akira doesn't align with his performances in black at all
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@junior said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I'm not sure it matters - we had 3 locks in our pack on Saturday, plus another couple of jumping options, and we failed to steal one throw off England.
It would leave our lineout pretty vulnerable though with limited targets.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Anyway sorry for derailing the thread, just some of the stuff I read about Akira doesn't align with his performances in black at all
I think it's perhaps caused by more disappointment that for all the bluster and ability, Ioane hasn't really established himself as irresistible and generally doesn't stand out from a Frizell performance.
I'd say most people would be fairly confident he should be better - he's just not proving it convincingly.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stargazer said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter I attach no more value to Fern MOTM polls than to player ratings in the media. There's little objectivity in them.
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I appreciate that mate,but sorry I just see Akira going missing a lot and I wish he would run harder on to the ball instead of those stop start runs.
He frustrates me as he has potential to be an amazing athlete.Agreed.
I disagree completely on the MOTM polls, they are far more objective than one idiot journalist rating players from a game. Yeah there's bias, but most posters will choose the stand outs as evidenced by one-eyed Chris throwing Akira votes. I actually think those polls are the best gauge of who the real MOTM was for the ABs anywhere on the internet.
What is this one eyed Chris throwing Akira votes shit.?
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@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Anyway sorry for derailing the thread, just some of the stuff I read about Akira doesn't align with his performances in black at all
I think it's perhaps caused by more disappointment that for all the bluster and ability, Ioane hasn't really established himself as irresistible and generally doesn't stand out from a Frizell performance.
I'd say most people would be fairly confident he should be better - he's just not proving it convincingly.
Really? How often has Frizzel featured in the MOTM polls? Should be plenty given how many more starts he gets
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Anyway sorry for derailing the thread, just some of the stuff I read about Akira doesn't align with his performances in black at all
I think it's perhaps caused by more disappointment that for all the bluster and ability, Ioane hasn't really established himself as irresistible and generally doesn't stand out from a Frizell performance.
I'd say most people would be fairly confident he should be better - he's just not proving it convincingly.
Really? How often has Frizzel featured in the MOTM polls? Should be plenty given how many more starts he gets
Really.
I haven't looked at the polls you showed and what matches they are, but I can't really see how the motm voting is the hill you're willing to die on and how they MUST be the be all and end all.
Not saying this is the case, but maybe Akira shines really well against substandard opposition? Maybe Frizell lifts the rest of the team to be able to perform to the best of their abilities and outshine him? Just a couple of the many things to think about...
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I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
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@junior said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I'm not sure it matters - we had 3 locks in our pack on Saturday, plus another couple of jumping options, and we failed to steal one throw off England.
I'm more worried about getting camped in our end with noodle-legged kickers and losing our own linouts
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@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
only if you ignore MOTM performances, right.
He hasn't kicked on, but he has played some storming games in black.
I honestly don't remember any 80 min MOM performances in black.
And I am not being a smart arse.@Chris @Stargazer here you go guys, I know this will be tough reading for you both, but will hopefully job your memory a bit.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
This is from 1 year ago. Guess you guys have pretty short memories?
Did you double and triple vote a few times.
I really rate your contributions on here mate, you know your shit and are involved in the game from grass roots up. I'm just staggered as to how you (and many others in fairness) seem to have such a blind spot for Akira's performances in black. He's been by far our best and most consistent 6 in the past few years. I think it's a real failure of the AB coaches to not utilise his strengths more and get him playing like he did in those games more consistently. I was hoping Ryan would help with that, but he seems to have just pushed him aside which is frustrating to see.
I appreciate that mate,but sorry I just see Akira going missing a lot and I wish he would run harder on to the ball instead of those stop start runs.
He frustrates me as he has potential to be an amazing athlete.I think this is maybe the dividing factor:
people see his potential and are upset he isn't directed better OR
people see his potential and get upset with him for laziness or something else -
This post is deleted!
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The Akira/Frizzel situation is just one I struggle to make sense of.
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
Akira seems to have to play very well every time he pulls on the black jersey to keep his spot for the next week, whereas Frizzel can produce barely adequate performances from week to week yet constantly gets selected.
Frizzel is like Reuben Thorne - he's in the team but no-one knows why as he doesn't appear to do anything on the field and even worse it's not like Frizzel is the captain...
So I think it's justified that Akira supports feel that he hasn't been given a fair shake of the stick.
Frizzel is a rock of consistency however - does the same thing game after game without playing in my mind "good" or "bad" and maybe that's what fozzie is after?
Personally I'd just like to see Akira given a fair run at 6 for a stretch of games and see how he develops as there is obvious potential there. Frizzel appears to have hit his ceiling...already...
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
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@Windows97 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
It goes back to Hansen and the toxic Blues environment.
With good early coaching at Super and AB level he could have been an absolute monster for us for years. Instead he got Tana, JK, late stage Hansen and Foster with his revolving door of assistants. That's the frustration for me; he had potential up the wazoo but just hasn't got to consistently high levels.
separately, our coaching (in NZ) is not consistently good. I look at what Henry did with Coles, and then what we did to Akira and now with Aumua, and we don't seem to be able to turn athletes with potential into world class players. Our coaching drain is biting us.
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@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Windows97 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
It goes back to Hansen and the toxic Blues environment.
With good early coaching at Super and AB level he could have been an absolute monster for us for years. Instead he got Tana, JK, late stage Hansen and Foster with his revolving door of assistants. That's the frustration for me; he had potential up the wazoo but just hasn't got to consistently high levels.
separately, our coaching (in NZ) is not consistently good. I look at what Henry did with Coles, and then what we did to Akira and now with Aumua, and we don't seem to be able to turn athletes with potential into world class players. Our coaching drain is biting us.
hasn't stopped his bro though but maybe decent forwards coaching is harder to find?
