All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@Stag Yeah because SR and test rugby are about the same standard aren't they......
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A day on and what is sad is we are so use to this it doesn’t hurt!
On reflection they did some good stuff, especially the first half, on attack and d, looking world class, which I think needs to be the teams dna. Issue was being more patient and execution. Then it’s the impact from bench, what a shocker, most notably at hooker which has been an issue all year. Or timing of subs need to be sorted, I would be keeping the starters on to 60-65 mins.
Our trust in our system under pressure is also a major work on, as the score closed we looked panicked as we have in the last 24mnths. I think ALB is someone who we sorely miss at centre, can work in close quarters, leadership.
Another player watching how the Argies defended us is a Thomas Umanga-Jensen. Although he gets inj he looked dynamic in first couple of. Games, can play direct, offloads, pressure d line.
Trust the Process…… haha -
@98blueandgold said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Strange old game, we played so well I thought in the first half. For me it was the subbing of the front row at 44min was the turning point. (Argie hooker got subbed at 75th min!), they were dominating and when they went off our attack changed, going a little wider and playing into puma line speed hands. Codie Taylor, awful and has been all year, so has Coles, who is 2nd hooker? also lack of composer in backs. looked rushed again in all we did and like we didn't have plan.
Agree, just don't know what happened. Taylor stuffed a few throws, one he hit target with Akira caught and Puma just took it out of his hands. When the new front row came on our maul disintergrated seemingly, picture I will keep seeing is Newell at the back of one just standing sideways going flatout towards our goal line. We just never adjusted to ref,I thought, he was allowing holding players in tackle, but hitting every slight incorrect entry to rucks etc, we never adapted. Probably other thing that surprised me was how such a big thing was made of Crusaders players being at home, and associated press, none were that great, Sam W was bloody good in lineouts, but seemed to be a little off pace in rest of game, Scott B was ok, Richie M after statement performance last week was ok and no more, Havili and Jordan were pretty ordinary. I not saying only Crusaders players were not flash, but really though they may make a statement at home.
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@Damo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Damo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Damo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kruse said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
whats the Georgian for "your having a fakking laugh mate"
you're
you're a kunt
Yous two calm down.
*Ewes
I know "yous" sounds appalling but English is dumb not to have a word for second person plural.
(technically it does: "you" but the second person singular "thou" went out 200 years ago and never got replaced).
Never said Lord’s Prayer at school: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name…?
At school? I should hope not.
Prayers at assembly.
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@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
"So, a tough learning curve for this group at the moment.''
- Ian Foster since 2019.
Foster's learning curve:
.Shouldn’t it be on -1 ?
Technically he passed his coaching exam...
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Yeah strange game , at halftime while I didn’t think we were great , I thought we were tracking ok ,
Could see new things I thought were the new coaches at work , and thought that was a bit satisfying
Then fucked if I know what happened second half , we went back to the shambles that more resembled the season so far .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Yeah strange game , at halftime while I didn’t think we were great , I thought we were tracking ok ,
Could see new things I thought were the new coaches at work , and thought that was a bit satisfying
Then fucked if I know what happened second half , we went back to shambles that more resembled the season so far .
The puma came out firing, Cheika can motivate and instill belief. Then foster the clown replaced our main form of go forward. A lucky bounce, and shit defence from Smith, and the team is in a position they need a plan B. Foster has barely given the team a plan A, so headless chook time
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Yeah strange game , at halftime while I didn’t think we were great , I thought we were tracking ok ,
Could see new things I thought were the new coaches at work , and thought that was a bit satisfying
Then fucked if I know what happened second half , we went back to shambles that more resembled the season so far .
Agree. We certainly weren't great but were doing ok. We need to give this new coaching team a bit more time though. It only the first test with Joe Schmidt fully on board so I will wait at least until the Aussie tests. Which is what NZR should have done
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cheika can motivate and instill belief
He will be feeling good about how things are going and with good reason.
Edit Should add well done to Argentina. Another first
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@Machpants and while on them , their defence was excellent,
Dave Kidwell a failed kiwi coach as defence coach , and he spoke well after the game I thought ,
Teams have had success with ex league players as defence coaches , something nz hasn’t explored ?
and they are dime a dozen this part of the world .
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
I thought a couple were a bit rough on the ABs. But then, your hooker detatched from the maul for his try, so....
I like that the ref was pretty strict on latching player going to deck - and fairly consistent.
Again... change that factor ...
Or be good enough that a couple of decisions aren't in frame.
I wondered about this at the time. On the replay it looks like ST manages to keep holding on to the player in front despite his shoulders losing contact. I thought as long as physical contact remained they are still bound?
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cliches:
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Well, Ian Foster is a born fucking loser promoted through the mediocrity worshipping NZ system. Sam Cane is another absolute born loser.
Guess what? It's another record loss!
Jeepers mate. Settle down. I think cane should be dropped but you’re losing self control there buddy.
Fuck, I reckon.
That’s fucking pathetic. Only loser is the one making the comment!! Weak
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
I thought a couple were a bit rough on the ABs. But then, your hooker detatched from the maul for his try, so....
I like that the ref was pretty strict on latching player going to deck - and fairly consistent.
Again... change that factor ...
Or be good enough that a couple of decisions aren't in frame.
I wondered about this at the time. On the replay it looks like ST manages to keep holding on to the player in front despite his shoulders losing contact. I thought as long as physical contact remained they are still bound?
Nope, not fully bound, penalty kick
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Cheika even thinks Robertson is a great coach a piece from the Pumas press conference.
He’d been asked about No 8 Pablo Matera, who helped the Crusaders win a record-extending 13th Super Rugby crown this year, and played a big hand in a superb performance by the Pumas’ loose forwards
“I think that the Crusaders have made a really huge mark, and Scott Robertson has made a really huge mark on Pablo. He came here to learn more about rugby, didn't come here for money or anything like that, and it shows the quality of the franchise and the coaching here, he's come back a heaps better player - mentally and technically.
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@kiwiinmelb I think we are not very good at looking outside the box.
Henry and even Hansen used to work with league teams, and even some nfl iirc.
Wayne Smith has DC doing some skills stuff, think mccaw was speaking with the group too...Wiki or Mannering would be a couple of guys that carry huge mana that would fit well into the rugby world at coaching/technical level.
We have massive resource of the things required yet from the outside it seems we are reluctant to use them.
I thought the 1st half last night we were looking pretty good, created plenty of chances but lacked polish, but then the 2nd half we reverted to the same bs we have been serving up for 2+ years, where we keep banging into a wall of defenders expecting it to break.
Unsure if the change of front row was the catalyst, but you took away one of our best ball carriers and 2 busy props getting the business done at scrum time.
Always hated and never understood the subbing inside 10 mins of halftime, and to do it to an entire front row that was going so well?
Who is that change on? Foster or Ryan?
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I had heard that during Razors interview he had outlined his plan for the AB's to 2023 and outlined key metrics he would utilise to get the squad together.
He went so far as to show how many minutes the players would have under their belts by the time the RWC came around.
Foster is week to week to my eye and has been for a long time.
Sotutu, Vaii, Papalii, Fakatava, Christie, Perofeta, RTS, Sowakula , Ennor, Fainga'anuku etc.
Whats the plan for these guys?
Why was Samisoni under used in Ireland series. Why was big Karl used over a Newell or DeGroot at the time?
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Sam Cane gets by from being a nice guy from the middle of nowhere. He is an absolutely terrible rugby player. He should get the fuck out of the All Blacks.
I really like him. I think it was circa 2016 he put on the most dominant tackling display I've ever seen against Wales in Cardiff. It was frightening.
But those days are long gone and he is yesterdays man.
He should have been picked for the RWC semi final but Hansen Guardiola'd himself by trying something mental in a knockout game.
The talk about succession planning is a farce when Hansens assistant gets the head coach role and then gives the same bloke that was dropped for the semi the captains armband.
I remember at the time thinking this is a weird decision,
Just named the guy captain that you lot couldn’t fit into the team for the most important game in 4 years
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What I don’t get is even if you want to keep Cane no way you can trust his decision making at Captain. What was the point of having Jordie take that kick a million miles away? Why didn’t he put another scrum down after the scrum penalty in the red zone? I think Cane should be dropped but if you don’t drop him he can’t be Captain.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cheika even thinks Robertson is a great coach a piece from the Pumas press conference.
He’d been asked about No 8 Pablo Matera, who helped the Crusaders win a record-extending 13th Super Rugby crown this year, and played a big hand in a superb performance by the Pumas’ loose forwards
“I think that the Crusaders have made a really huge mark, and Scott Robertson has made a really huge mark on Pablo. He came here to learn more about rugby, didn't come here for money or anything like that, and it shows the quality of the franchise and the coaching here, he's come back a heaps better player - mentally and technically.
That is some A level mind games right there, well played Cheika.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Sam Cane gets by from being a nice guy from the middle of nowhere. He is an absolutely terrible rugby player. He should get the fuck out of the All Blacks.
I really like him. I think it was circa 2016 he put on the most dominant tackling display I've ever seen against Wales in Cardiff. It was frightening.
But those days are long gone and he is yesterdays man.
He should have been picked for the RWC semi final but Hansen Guardiola'd himself by trying something mental in a knockout game.
The talk about succession planning is a farce when Hansens assistant gets the head coach role and then gives the same bloke that was dropped for the semi the captains armband.
I remember at the time thinking this is a weird decision,
Just named the guy captain that you lot couldn’t fit into the team for the most important game in 4 years
Apparently the team are rebuilding. Have been since 2019, despite only a couple of retirements after the cup (read, sbw, Ben Smith). How the fuck is a team, with the same coaching ticket and virtually the same players rebuilding? And how the fuck can it take two and a half years?
