All Blacks 2022
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
i agree, but then i am far more pragmatic than most
and the post directly above yours is the key reason it won't happen.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
Joe Schmidt reveals the blueprint to Ireland's success over the All Blacks
Former Ireland head coach Joe Schmidt has detailed how he planned the country's first-ever wins over the All Blacks.
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
Joe Schmidt reveals the blueprint to Ireland's success over the All Blacks
Former Ireland head coach Joe Schmidt has detailed how he planned the country's first-ever wins over the All Blacks.
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
Didn't Gatland do that with the Lions first? Not only did they smother us with the rush defence, but it was very noticeable how they did everything they could to not let us take advantage of any of their knock ons etc. They disrupted like maniacs.
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@Crazy-Horse Ireland 2016, Lions 2017, capiche?
and that was Andy Farrell (not Gatland) coaching Lion's defense btw.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
On pure current form, the AB team could be :
De Groot
ST
Ofa T
Sangster
Lord
Ioane
Papali'i
Sotutu
Ratima
Perofeta
Clarke
TUJ
Ioane
Jordan
BarrettThis guy good enough to be an AB?
Shortish for an AB lock
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Maybe I misunderstood you but I don't think @kiwi_expat was talking about playing ability. I read it as coaches whose ceiling is Super Rugby - as coaches.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Upvote for the post but I don't think that was the actual question (deliberate #booboo ref @Crazy-Horse ).
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
Joe Schmidt's intensity a key influence at Blues, says Christie
The former Ireland head coach has added international experience and a demanding attitude to Super Rugby Pacific's high-fliers.
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Blues have got MacDonald who is starting to look a good coach, Schmidt is only filling in as he has retired to area etc. Afeaki and Conventry are simple good employing by Blues, it's hardly hoarding international quality coaches as we have no idea how good they would be at test level anyway.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Maybe I misunderstood you but I don't think @kiwi_expat was talking about playing ability. I read it as coaches whose ceiling is Super Rugby - as coaches.
yes, and could even argue in Foster's case considering his meagre 50% success-rate across eight seasons.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
unfortunately his distribution game was pants, could be different now though.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
Jordie was 96kgs when he was a fresh faced kid. He's waay bigger now and has bulked up so much he's got a double chin.
You only have to look at what guys around him weigh in at to see that 96kgs and 100kgs are not credible weights for him..
Will Jordan is running around at 100kgs and Jordie is taller and proportionately more heavy-set.
Rieko Ioane is listed widely as 105kgs and significantly shorter than Jordie.
Brother Scott is only slightly taller and locking the AB scrum at 118kgs Jordie's not giving him nearly 20kgs.
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Could many birds be killed with one stone by shifting Barrett to No 12? The argument stacks up. The All Blacks want a physical specimen there. That’s a tick as Barrett is 1.96m and 105kg. He can run direct, angled lines because he does this a lot for the Hurricanes when he often pops up as first receiver.
Is Jordie Barrett the fix to the All Blacks' problem position?
It may be a left-field move, but Jordie Barrett has all the skills needed for a shift back to the midfield.
These guys are much closer to the money, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jordie was several kgs heavier.
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@Chris-B... Foster already ruled it out in recent interview so why is the media still beating this horse?
TUJ, Goodhue, RTS, Tupaea, Havili (shudder), are the likely contenders.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B... Foster already ruled it out in recent interview so why is the media still beating this horse?
Lol expat, you know what the media is like, sometimes it easier to beat a dead horse as it doesn't kick you back??
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@kiwi_expat The interview I saw of Foster a couple of weeks ago on the Breakdown he cagily said he was "watching with interest".
I don't think they will start him there in the first game against Ireland (right now I'm expecting Jack Goodhue), but I will frankly be more surprised than not if we don't see him at 2nd five for the ABs some time this year.
