Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..)
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@kiwi_expat said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
Spencer-like players in McKenzie & B.Barrett for their dual-playmaker axis in 2018 over Mo'unga
ah, Richie Mo'unga is the Carlos Spencer you buy from Wish
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@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
I’m sick of some of you eye-patch “supporters” hating on certain players and cherry picking everything about them
fuck i so totally agree with it.
I believe two things:
Some of you have entrenched bias, and can't see past that when evaluating a players worth to the side
and
all the Barretts are shit and should stick to Super Rugby
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DMac hasn't
dominatedbeen good since his injury.I can't recall the last time Ardie had a positive impact in Test rugby.
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McKenzie is pretty good positionally in general I reckon. Better than Jordie, though he's not bad either.
He's small, and he runs sideways when nothing is on. His decisions when things are on, are generally good. If nothing is on and you're a midget, buying some time by running sideways isn't actually the worst option, even though it is ugly as fuuuuck to watch.
Fact is Foster seems set on the dual playmaker, and McKenzie probably is the best of them in that role. -
while we are having this discussion, again
DMac is far better under the high ball than he is given credit for. It's not just about being tall guys.
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@mariner4life said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@yeahtheboys said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
I’m sick of some of you eye-patch “supporters” hating on certain players and cherry picking everything about them
fuck i so totally agree with it.
I believe two things:
Some of you have entrenched bias, and can't see past that when evaluating a players worth to the side
and
all the Barretts are shit and should stick to Super Rugby
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@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.
Jordie is a great player and I think he could be a world class 12, but the Hurricanes make him play a certain type of game at 15 only, to cover limitations around him. He does that extremely well.
It is staggering to see how there is a huge outcry again about 15 when that is not what the Aussie comeback or heavy penalty count for AB's was all about.
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@yeahtheboys well said!
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@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.
thats not untrue....but i dont think he converts anywhere near as many as he should, he might stretch the defence and then throw a hospital pass or not see what he's created and take it into contact whilst isolated...maybe he's not tall enough too see everything
that why what he does, in my mind, works so much better as an impact when the team is tired, doing what he does in the first 20min with fresh jackles is dangerous
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@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.
We're talking about Test rugby here. The one where he constantly goes backwards or runs away from support so our forwards have to go backwards to support him, or he gives hospital passes to avoid getting tackled.
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@antipodean said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@arhs said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@kiwi_expat I think you are way off beam in your analysis. Have you ever watched how opposition backlines react to DMacs field coverage? He constantly creates threats, and stretches the opposition to counter, popping up across the width of the park. I would have thought that wore down the opposition to some degree. Not sure how you and others regard him as such a liability in everything he does at high level.
We're talking about Test rugby here. The one where he constantly goes backwards or runs away from support so our forwards have to go backwards to support him, or he gives hospital passes to avoid getting tackled.
He did that at least three times last test, looked flash but ABs ended up in s much worse position afterwards. It's really ineffective and undesirable at international level. Foster & Aaron specifically pointed out going wide to early, and DMac as one of the decision makers was one of the worst for that
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@machpants its also hard to anticipate so the other backs seem to struggle to be in the right position IF he does create something
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I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.
I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.
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@gt12 said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.
I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.
Yeah they took it wide too early, because that what the play makers called. Smith mentioned that specifically, there were so many options, they tried them too early
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@machpants said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
@gt12 said in Hansen/Foster's recent selection philosophy & the consequences it has on team balance (back-row, back-three, bench etc..):
I do find it funny that we spend so much time pissing around about 15, when our problems are with our go forward up front, our discipline, and our strategy/tactics which are the primary responsibility of our main playmaker.
I’m really starting to wonder whether Mo’unga can drive a team around the field - they seem set on having others there to help him do his job.
Yeah they took it wide too early, because that what the play makers called. Smith mentioned that specifically, there were so many options, they tried them too early
Yeah, I heard him talk about that and liked the fact that he said that he could also improve - they seem to have leadership teams and his appears to be defense, so he wasn't necessarily being as vocal as he could have. I'd like to know who drives the attack, as he didn't mention Dmac by name, but I assume it is Mo'unga, Havili, and Dmac. It may be too many cooks and broth situation, so Dmac probably has some blame.
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Long story short the coaching staff became totally ambivelant about how the game should be played and the positional requirements at All Black level.
They started to fetishise getting in the squad rather than the 23 or 15.
There are a lot of issues but I think most start from there. How many players currently own their All Black jersey? Fuck all.
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A big part of rugby is winning the collisions.
When you've got a lot of little guys in the team, you start to lose too many and too many in a row - and you get hurt.
You need a few playmakers - the best of whom tend to be a bit smaller and you have to accept they'll get flattened or run over occasionally - but, I like to have plenty of big guys around them so that there's bail out options regularly on hand and guys who can cover defensively. I miss Ma'a Nonu!
When we start fielding an under-sized 8 in Ardie, Aaron Smith, Mo'unga, Havili (a smallish 12), Sevu Reece and DMac that's starting to get a bit Japan-like to me.
I'm inclined to throw in a few more bigger bodies.
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