Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@mariner4life what "but"?
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just because you didn't physically type it doesn't mean it's not there
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@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I genuinely feel Dmac is our best 10 potentially..even though I feel that experiment doesnt seem anywhere near currently..
BB has been out of form since 2017, Mounga hasn't been bad but I just think Dmac offers a higher ceiling. Hopefully he gets a full season at 10 for the Chiefs.
BB has been out of form, because hes playing out of position. 2017 was IRB best player on the planet...
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@westcoastie said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I genuinely feel Dmac is our best 10 potentially..even though I feel that experiment doesnt seem anywhere near currently..
BB has been out of form since 2017, Mounga hasn't been bad but I just think Dmac offers a higher ceiling. Hopefully he gets a full season at 10 for the Chiefs.
BB has been out of form, because hes playing out of position. 2017 was IRB best player on the planet...
He's no DC, but it is terrible the way he has been jerked around, considering he was the 1st choice 10
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@Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
They keep showing Jordan’s trys on social media, think that’s the best Nisbo commentary in years.
Reminds me of the 2000 Lomu “You betcha” call.
I know people get down on Marshall around here, but I loved his "go boy!" for BB in the 2015 RWC Final
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@westcoastie IIRC he was competing for that second WR Player of the Year title with Rieko Ioane and everyone on the Fern thought that Ioane should have got it and not BB. The decline of BB already started in 2017 and he only lost his starting spot for the ABs - at 10 - in 2019. You'd have to think that the WR Player of the Year - given for performance at test level, not SR level - should be able to dominate in his position at lower levels (SR). The fact is that he hasn't dominated at 10 in SR for years (particularly not in 2017 and 2018 for the Canes).
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@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Stargazer said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
I think it was Glen Jackson, who already said in his analysis on the Breakdown (last year) that BB was too dominant in the combo. He still played as a first five, while he should be the fullback in the combo. John Kirwan (I think) said something similar after Bled 1.
About two(?) weeks ago, Matson also said on the Breakdown that one of the things that negatively affected RM's game was that there wasn't enough communication. With the quick linespeed of the Aussies in Bled 4, RM had so little time to take decisions that his team mates should have communicated better where the space was and the threats were. The fullback must be the eyes of the 10 at the back; the wing must let him know better when he sees space in front of him; the midfielders should point out the threats. That didn't happen sufficiently.
In Crusaders games RM has a very good communicator at the back in Havili. In the ABs, the best communicator (and organiser) used to be Crotty. We always talk about how one of the midfielders needs to be the new Nonu; I think we need someone to step up and be the new Crotty (and the fullback that Ben Smith used to be). I still think that that could be BB, but it may require a change in mindset. And I hardly dare to say it on the Fern, but I also would like to see Havili back in black to see how he goes.
Really good points and it's another strong argument against playing players out of position. I doubt BB has a lot of experience playing that communicator role at the back when he's played all his rugby at 10. His instincts will be to get his hands on the ball, and when things go pear shaped he'll naturally do that more and more. It's really frustrating that everyone can see the issues with this tactic, but the coaches just blindly continue with it.
John Mitchell knew his shit, pure instinct players are a liability at the back.
suck it @Nepia
Your true hatred of Cullen is revealing itself week by week - are we sure you're not actually Mitchell himself.
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@Nepia said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Stargazer said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
I think it was Glen Jackson, who already said in his analysis on the Breakdown (last year) that BB was too dominant in the combo. He still played as a first five, while he should be the fullback in the combo. John Kirwan (I think) said something similar after Bled 1.
About two(?) weeks ago, Matson also said on the Breakdown that one of the things that negatively affected RM's game was that there wasn't enough communication. With the quick linespeed of the Aussies in Bled 4, RM had so little time to take decisions that his team mates should have communicated better where the space was and the threats were. The fullback must be the eyes of the 10 at the back; the wing must let him know better when he sees space in front of him; the midfielders should point out the threats. That didn't happen sufficiently.
In Crusaders games RM has a very good communicator at the back in Havili. In the ABs, the best communicator (and organiser) used to be Crotty. We always talk about how one of the midfielders needs to be the new Nonu; I think we need someone to step up and be the new Crotty (and the fullback that Ben Smith used to be). I still think that that could be BB, but it may require a change in mindset. And I hardly dare to say it on the Fern, but I also would like to see Havili back in black to see how he goes.
Really good points and it's another strong argument against playing players out of position. I doubt BB has a lot of experience playing that communicator role at the back when he's played all his rugby at 10. His instincts will be to get his hands on the ball, and when things go pear shaped he'll naturally do that more and more. It's really frustrating that everyone can see the issues with this tactic, but the coaches just blindly continue with it.
John Mitchell knew his shit, pure instinct players are a liability at the back.
suck it @Nepia
You're true hatred of Cullen is revealing itself week by week - are we sure you're not actually Mitchell himself.
journeying like a mad fluffybunny
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@westcoastie said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I genuinely feel Dmac is our best 10 potentially..even though I feel that experiment doesnt seem anywhere near currently..
BB has been out of form since 2017, Mounga hasn't been bad but I just think Dmac offers a higher ceiling. Hopefully he gets a full season at 10 for the Chiefs.
BB has been out of form, because hes playing out of position. 2017 was IRB best player on the planet...
Out of position??
2018-19 he played 11 out of 12 tests at 10. Then took the full back role for the rest of the 2019 world cup.
Hardly getting mixed around constantly as you claim.He hasn't been the same since 2017. Note that before his breakout year in 2016, he was still very effective and dynamic coming off the bench at either 10 or 15. He doesnt have that same impact currently. Seems to prefer to jog into contact or bomb if further than 20 meters out from the opposition tryline.
When is the last time he has actually took the line on when countering from the back?
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The boys look stoked about Patrick's try.
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You could see that try coming as soon as Arg tried to play catch up. I won a shot of whiskey at the pub.
Some Scott b analysis
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/30/did-scott-barrett-just-win-ian-foster-one-more-year/
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Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
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@reprobate said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
We are turning into England.
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@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
They keep showing Jordan’s trys on social media, think that’s the best Nisbo commentary in years.
Reminds me of the 2000 Lomu “You betcha” call.
I know people get down on Marshall around here, but I loved his "go boy!" for BB in the 2015 RWC Final
There's some footage of Nisbo and Marshy commentating Beaudy's try at the end, which I can't find.
Great stuff!
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@Machpants won him 1 more year, he has 1 more year to run, no way was he gonna be fired, win or lose.
All it has done is relieved the pressure a wee bit, for now.
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
I'd tend to say the same about Handre Pollard, but no-one else seemed to have a problem with him being suggested.
In reality, it is probably Farrell - but, I will take Mo'unga and Barrett as 2nd and 3rd - and a caveat that I haven't seen Ntamack.
Maybe Sexton isn't cooked, but I think he is.
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