Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
He was better in the 1st half, but still managed to bomb two tries. That should tell you how bad he was in the 2nd
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@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Yes because BB and Mounga are just TOO good currently to try something else..
Well, that's an argument I have no counter for!
Just saying we should be asking questions. Otherwise don't be shocked leaving the next world cup with nothing again.
Shit, I'm ok with asking qns. I'm just very far from convinced that Dmac to 10 will be the move that sees us lift the trophy in 2023! To me he is a big step down from either RM or BB, and that's saying something on current form.
I'm not saying chuck him in now. I'm saying I'd like to see him at 10 for the Chiefs the entire season next year.
Besides, BB will be 32 next world cup, I dont imagine him being better than he is now, especially as his pace starts to diminish.Mounga I don't really have a problem with, except that he doesnt seem to have the ability to take control of an entire game at this level currently. I'd rather develop Mounga/Dmac at 10 going forward and see who comes out on top. BB will need to start performing well soon as his highlights are becoming more sparse and the gaps between games where he is in form are increasing.
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@hydro11 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Jordie was injured for the first two games, then came back and won the Hurricanes the next four matches. Short memories. By all means back Jordan for 14 but Jordie was the MVP of SRA and should have been picked to start at full back.
Jordie missed the first three weeks of SRA, he came back against the bottom two sides at which point the competition was effectively down to the match between the Blues and Crusaders which resulted in a number of players being injured.
Sure Jordie looked good in close wins over the Crusaders and Blues but the competition was already over by that time.
I'm not sure I would have rated Jordie in the top 10 SRA players for influencing the actual competition simply because he missed the first two key games. Everyone looked good against the Chiefs so we can ignore those results, which left him playing well in 3 games and badly in the defeat to the Highlanders versus guys that performed consistently well throughout the competition in the Blues/Crusaders, both of which finished above Jordies team (for those with short memories).
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@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.
His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.
The first try was definitely a case of his team mates helping, the defensive line moving up together on the Argie back line was a thing of beauty.
Having said that, how many times have we put the opposition under pressure this year only to fumble the pick up or throw a poor pass? Jordan's ability to get the chance and take it has been in short supply this year.
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It seems to me that Jordan is something special. With BB in Japan they will almost certainly consider JB a 15 and Jordan will get more opportunities at 14.
How good is it to see Jordan, Akira and Sotutu in the team and all playing well? We need guys who can bend or break the defensive line, and they all bring that.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
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@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
I said last year that it looked like the backline was still BB's to run even with RM at 10 and this may be affecting RM's game. RM is a better player than he has showed us so far at test level. He can control games at super level, we have seen that with the Crusaders. You might be on to something, BB could be suffering too.
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@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
I said last year that it looked like the backline was still BB's to run even with RM at 10 and this may be affecting RM's game. RM is a better player than he has showed us so far at test level. He can control games at super level, we have seen that with the Crusaders. You might be on to something, BB could be suffering too.
BB not helped by playing so much time at 15, and also his sabbatical. Between those, he hasn;t had a decent time to get on a roll. Like Jordie when he was 15 he played really well off back to back games (leaving aside the argument of who is best 15) his consistancy of position helped. I reckon it woulda helped BB too. But, BB maybe permanently fucked due to his sabbaticals and DMacs injury prior to RWC. Cest la vie
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@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Crazy-Horse said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Nevorian said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
I have just rewatched first half and feel like the RM critics must have watched a different game - assume it will all go to shit in the 2nd. Only bad judgement I could see was his cross kick to JB when he could have possibly created a three on two overlap with loads of space 20 out from the line
My thoughts too. It's like we have Mannix Mk 2 out there if you go by some of the comments.
RM is no Carter, but him and Barrett are the best we have and there is nobody else knocking on the door.
I actually think RM would go better without BB on the field and vise versa. Might force them to take control of the game, whereas at the moment for example if things start going awry BB slots in at first receiver and I don't think either player is that clear on their role.
I think it was Glen Jackson, who already said in his analysis on the Breakdown (last year) that BB was too dominant in the combo. He still played as a first five, while he should be the fullback in the combo. John Kirwan (I think) said something similar after Bled 1.
About two(?) weeks ago, Matson also said on the Breakdown that one of the things that negatively affected RM's game was that there wasn't enough communication. With the quick linespeed of the Aussies in Bled 4, RM had so little time to take decisions that his team mates should have communicated better where the space was and the threats were. The fullback must be the eyes of the 10 at the back; the wing must let him know better when he sees space in front of him; the midfielders should point out the threats. That didn't happen sufficiently.
In Crusaders games RM has a very good communicator at the back in Havili. In the ABs, the best communicator (and organiser) used to be Crotty. We always talk about how one of the midfielders needs to be the new Nonu; I think we need someone to step up and be the new Crotty (and the fullback that Ben Smith used to be). I still think that that could be BB, but it may require a change in mindset. And I hardly dare to say it on the Fern, but I also would like to see Havili back in black to see how he goes.
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@Stargazer said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
there wasn't enough communication
Michael Collins could sort that out.
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
As Trump would say, SAD!
😎
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@mofitzy_ so looks like he has escaped a citing?
Agree though, RC on another day, in fact lucky to be a YC on any day given the current attitude to ward head contact.
Surprised that cleanout of Cane that resulted in 'pushing' and a penalty reversal didnt get looked at further (real time it didnt look good, and forgot to go back and see if it was as bad as I thought initially)
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@taniwharugby
On further viewing I don't think it was as bad as I initially thought, but more because he didn't land too badly. Still deserved a look though, was certainly worse than Taylor giving the Argie a front-on push for trying to stop us getting a quick tap. -
random thought, does anyone have a feel for the width of the pitch on the weekend
just after watching the game at eden park and then the test, it looked tiny, maybe because its normally a league pitch?
if true it really is an indictment of the coaches and tactics as anything, lack of ability to change that attack plan
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@Kiwiwomble It might also account for the seemingly lack of space the week prior there too - Wallabies v Pumas.
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