AB "What could have been" XV
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@Nepia Yeah, probably one of the biggest indictments on Mains' career was not being able to recognise Bachop as the best 9. In fact he selected Ant Strachan, Jon Preston, Stu Forster and I'm sure at least one other ahead of Bachop, although I seem to recall Bachop wasn't actually available for each of Mains' seasons?
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@Catogrande said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@sparky said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Catogrande Maitland's yet another poach from Tokoroa.
Yes. I see I’m going to have to up my sarcasm game.
You were being sarcastic. Wow, never guessed that for one second. 😉
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@Catogrande
Tokoroa poaching is a joke harking back to when Stephen Jones claimed Mealamu (?) was poached from the island of Tokoroa. Tokoroa is a small town in NZ. -
@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Nepia Yeah, probably one of the biggest indictments on Mains' career was not being able to recognise Bachop as the best 9. In fact he selected Ant Strachan, Jon Preston, Stu Forster and I'm sure at least one other ahead of Bachop, although I seem to recall Bachop wasn't actually available for each of Mains' seasons?
Man I’m having terrible flashbacks to the Forster/Ellis and Forster/Mannix AB combinations in 93 and 94...
Bachop did come back into the team for that 94 Boks home series.
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Billy Tell
What could have been.
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@shark Grim played for Mains in 92 but wasn't in the best of form and was dropped. He was unavailable in 93 . He then moved from Linwood to Old Boys because he was in his own words, Jaded. He played with a young Mehrts outside him and forced his way back into the AB's in 94. Mains wasn't the greatest selector but I don't think he was to blame for Bachops time away from the test side.
Post 91 RWC there was the need for a clean out and also a number of players who seemed to lose their enthusiasm for the game. Even Foxy
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Uncle Lozza was just an out and out terrible selector. A real experimentalist. Not helped by having Peter Thorburn alongside him, of course.
When he started stamping his mark in 1992 - initially in a trial - he showed his hand immediately. Bernie McCahill was selected at 10 (albeit pretty much as a way to show him the door), and then he selected the likes of Pod Turner in his World XV series squad and tried Walter Little at 10 also. It took Mains until 1994 to recognise Zinny's value as well.
That initial squad included an influx of Otago players in Paul Henderson, Jamie Joseph, Arran Pene, Marc Ellis and Greg Cooper.
The third test was when he dropped Bachop for Strachan.
Mains was all over the show. Luckily, Mehrts, Kronfeld, Jonah and Osborne emerged in 1994 and by 1995 he had sensibly settled on the experienced Auckland core of his pack in Brown, Fitzy, Dowd, R Brooke, Jones and Zinny.
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@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Uncle Lozza was just an out and out terrible selector. A real experimentalist. Not helped by having Peter Thorburn alongside him, of course.
..and Earle Kirton. He thought Marc Ellis was a ten and Wilson could take the goalkicking
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@Duluth said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Uncle Lozza was just an out and out terrible selector. A real experimentalist. Not helped by having Peter Thorburn alongside him, of course.
..and Earle Kirton. He thought Marc Ellis was a ten and Wilson could take the goalkicking
......and they all thought Liam Barry was an All Black
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@shark I agree Mains was a poor selector but its BS to say he didn't realise Zinny's value. Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains. Pene did start in a Lions Test in 93 and against England that year (Zinnie was at 6) but Pene was Player of the years that season so Mains wasn't alone in thinking he had the goods.
The Auckland tight 5 was pretty much locked in for all of Mains tenure although Loe when available was preferred to Dowd. It was Wyllie who failed to see how good Brown and R Brooke were not Mains.
Mains was the forwards coach and usually had us going well. It was Thorburn in the backs who tried all the crazy shit.
@MN5 In 96 Hart said Liam Barry was the unluckiest player in NZ not to make the squad to go to SA. If you're talking overrated AB open sides it's Hart who had the hard on for Mark Carter....
Most coaches have made some dubious selection calls but it certainly wasn't Lauries strength
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@dogmeat said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@shark I agree Mains was a poor selector but its BS to say he didn't realise Zinny's value. Brooke played in all the tests against Oz in 92 and against SA and was an ever present under Mains. Pene did start in a Lions Test in 93 and against England that year (Zinnie was at 6) but Pene was Player of the years that season so Mains wasn't alone in thinking he had the goods.
The Auckland tight 5 was pretty much locked in for all of Mains tenure although Loe when available was preferred to Dowd. It was Wyllie who failed to see how good Brown and R Brooke were not Mains.
Mains was the forwards coach and usually had us going well. It was Thorburn in the backs who tried all the crazy shit.
@MN5 In 96 Hart said Liam Barry was the unluckiest player in NZ not to make the squad to go to SA. If you're talking overrated AB open sides it's Hart who had the hard on for Mark Carter....
Most coaches have made some dubious selection calls but it certainly wasn't Lauries strength
Carter at the very least had one outstanding game against Oz. He got a lot of unjustified hatred when he was playing.
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@mofitzy_ said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Catogrande
Tokoroa poaching is a joke harking back to when Stephen Jones claimed Mealamu (?) was poached from the island of Tokoroa. Tokoroa is a small town in NZ.Yes. Thank you. Was aware.
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@shark said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Uncle Lozza was just an out and out terrible selector. A real experimentalist. Not helped by having Peter Thorburn alongside him, of course.
When he started stamping his mark in 1992 - initially in a trial - he showed his hand immediately. Bernie McCahill was selected at 10 (albeit pretty much as a way to show him the door), and then he selected the likes of Pod Turner in his World XV series squad and tried Walter Little at 10 also. It took Mains until 1994 to recognise Zinny's value as well.
That initial squad included an influx of Otago players in Paul Henderson, Jamie Joseph, Arran Pene, Marc Ellis and Greg Cooper.
The third test was when he dropped Bachop for Strachan.
Mains was all over the show. Luckily, Mehrts, Kronfeld, Jonah and Osborne emerged in 1994 and by 1995 he had sensibly settled on the experienced Auckland core of his pack in Brown, Fitzy, Dowd, R Brooke, Jones and Zinny.
Pod Turner was quite a good player. I recall watching him in a HB v Akl Ranfurly Shield match and he was just everywhere. Became a fanboi but he never really lived up to that level again. Pne for 'the what could have been' thread .
Little was a 10 all through age group and in his initial first class footy. Hardly surprising he was looked at as a 10 first up. ( Bernie McCahill though ... )
Those Otago players were all pretty deserving, at least of squad places (with perhaps the exception of Pene).
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@Tim said in AB "What could have been" XV:
Matthew Cooper out of position at 12 was another face palm.
Played Cooper at 12 (Putaruru v Hamilton Marist).
Didn't seem out of position.
Seemed kind very fucking big. And fast. And likely to injure me just by moving in my direction.
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@Catogrande said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@mofitzy_ said in AB "What could have been" XV:
@Catogrande
Tokoroa poaching is a joke harking back to when Stephen Jones claimed Mealamu (?) was poached from the island of Tokoroa. Tokoroa is a small town in NZ.Yes. Thank you. Was aware.
IIRC:
- Thought it was Butler
- Never mentioned "Island" or "Tokoroa" only place (Or maybe country) of birth
But my memory could be hazy, and the article in question seems to have been removed from the archives...
An old Fernet (Mr Mike) had a copy ... But he's disappeared.
