All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@No-Quarter H.W. Shortt recreation ground is lovely in a southerly.
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@MiketheSnow I think you're right in that there will be little change. I would like to see Sinckler given the nod to start too. Furlong hasn't been quite at his best the last couple of games. I would still have him over Cole though. Second row is a poser for sure. You'd have to assume that Lawes is fit and if he is in Gatland's thinking it is likely he will get half a game to show that he's firing on all cylinders and then Kruis will get his chance to show that his below par performance on Saturday was an aberration. If so that may be hard for AWJ but I thought he looked off the pace again. Mind you I said that before and he came back with a powerful performance so who knows. I do think that Gatland will want to get Warburton on the field and he will improve the breakdown, but who to drop?
The back line stays the same for me but bring on Webb a bit earlier. If North has a stormer then I'd certainly take him on the bench instead of Halfpenny as I feel he can really add something if he's on form.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Can't see BB not starting at 10. Dagg 15. Shag has given Bus a pretty clear indication that if he does the business tomorrow he'll be back at 11 on Saturday. Rieko at 14. If not Naholo in.
I'd keep BB at 1st 5 as well but Hansen's comments in the pressa suggests he could be leaning towards Cruden at 10 and BB at 15. That means Dagg stays on the wing.
Hansen has never been one for sentiment so I don't think the fact that the test is in Welly helps Julian. Naholo is a good chance for the no.14 jersey if Dagg is moved to fullback.
Haven't watched full pressa. Will take another look.
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@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow I think you're right in that there will be little change. I would like to see Sinckler given the nod to start too. Furlong hasn't been quite at his best the last couple of games. I would still have him over Cole though. Second row is a poser for sure. You'd have to assume that Lawes is fit and if he is in Gatland's thinking it is likely he will get half a game to show that he's firing on all cylinders and then Kruis will get his chance to show that his below par performance on Saturday was an aberration. If so that may be hard for AWJ but I thought he looked off the pace again. Mind you I said that before and he came back with a powerful performance so who knows. I do think that Gatland will want to get Warburton on the field and he will improve the breakdown, but who to drop?
The back line stays the same for me but bring on Webb a bit earlier. If North has a stormer then I'd certainly take him on the bench instead of Halfpenny as I feel he can really add something if he's on form.
This was a mate's take on what I wrote
"Drop Kruis and AWJ from the squad. Pick Itoje and Lawes with Henderson on the bench.
Drop O'Mahoney from the squad. Pick Warburton with Stander on the bench.
Drop Halfpenny from the squad and put Joseph on the bench.
If Best wins three or more turnovers on the floor in the first 60 minutes tomorrow, pick him too."
Baby and bathwater springs to mind
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
They believe they have the right personnel, and with more precision and better execution the right tactics to beat the ABs .
... Baby and bathwater springs to mindI'm willing to use one hand to tip the bath to 30-degrees and spill out some of the bathwater, but use the other hand to hold onto the baby
It will be a mistake to set out to do the same thing again with the same people and hoping that more precision/execution will beat the ABs who were dominant for large parts of the game.
12 years is a long time to wonder "What would have happened if ..."
The Lions were at their best when the ball got beyond 12.
So I'd opt for the alternative approach of 2 playmakers with Sexton at 10 and Farrell at 12.
That is tough on Te'O as he made some ground and defended well, but he is not good at getting the outside backs going. Te'O not being in the way of SBW will stress the Lions defence line more so I'd stick with Murray over Webb for 60-65 minutes. Webb does not contribute as much to defence as Murray and Webb is prone to solo-breaks with no support and will lose possession when isolated.I'd take AWJ out of the squad (maybe unfair as he did take a heavy knock before the first try) but he seemed out of touch. If he was injured and has recovered, then he could get in from the start as a lineout-caller. If not, then Lawes and Kruis (again Kruis just ahead of Itoje because of being a lineout-caller).
Then bring Itoje on at 50 min for whichever lock is likely to fade most.
There is a huge clamour for Itoje, but for all his athleticism, he does make rash mistakes and give away penalties.There is talk of swapping POM for Warburton, but I don't think there is a huge difference.
So 2 changes (Lawes for AWJ; Sexton in, Te'O out) + 1 positional (Farrell)
Same front-row;
Lawes and Kruis (or AWJ if he had played on injured)
Same back-row
Murray, Sexton
Farrell, Davies
Same back 3If Stander is going well, I'd put him on the bench instead of Warburton as Stander might be able to make yards when he comes on (but has not done that as well in 2017 as in 2016). Again, that is tough on Warburton, but Stander would offer a difference off the bench.
Tipuric would be a genuinely different option, but Gatland/Howley have not given him much time in a Welsh shirt over the years, so it is too late for a change of heart / game-plan.I'd probably opt for Henderson - like Itoje he gives lock/6 cover.
2 locks on the bench would give the starting pair the scope to flog themselves for 50-60 minutes to counter Retallick/Whitelock/Read.The one other bench option would be to have Joseph, again to provide something different: Halfpenny will not break open a game with a run/step.
Bench:
I'd make a bit more change to the bench with 3 changes and changing to a 6-2 split to give different back-5 forward options to the first Test.
Same front row
Itoje, Henderson, Stander
Webb, Joseph
Also there might be more positive benefit from the promotion of 4 players into the matchday squad (Lawes, Henderson, Stander, Joseph) compared to the negative impact of 4 players going out of the squad (AWJ, Warburton, Te'O, Halfpenny).It might not make sense to others who read it, but neither does doing the same again!
Tough on AWJ, Te'O to go from starting to out of the squad, but this is the toughest arena so hard choices have to be made. -
@Megweya said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
They believe they have the right personnel, and with more precision and better execution the right tactics to beat the ABs .
... Baby and bathwater springs to mindI'm willing to use one hand to tip the bath to 30-degrees and spill out some of the bathwater, but use the other hand to hold onto the baby
It will be a mistake to set out to do the same thing again with the same people and hoping that more precision/execution will beat the ABs who were dominant for large parts of the game.
12 years is a long time to wonder "What would have happened if ..."
The Lions were at their best when the ball got beyond 12.
So I'd opt for the alternative approach of 2 playmakers with Sexton at 10 and Farrell at 12.
That is tough on Te'O as he made some ground and defended well, but he is not good at getting the outside backs going. Te'O not being in the way of SBW will stress the Lions defence line more so I'd stick with Murray over Webb for 60-65 minutes. Webb does not contribute as much to defence as Murray and Webb is prone to solo-breaks with no support and will lose possession when isolated.I'd take AWJ out of the squad (maybe unfair as he did take a heavy knock before the first try) but he seemed out of touch. If he was injured and has recovered, then he could get in from the start as a lineout-caller. If not, then Lawes and Kruis (again Kruis just ahead of Itoje because of being a lineout-caller).
Then bring Itoje on at 50 min for whichever lock is likely to fade most.
There is a huge clamour for Itoje, but for all his athleticism, he does make rash mistakes and give away penalties.There is talk of swapping POM for Warburton, but I don't think there is a huge difference.
So 2 changes (Lawes for AWJ; Sexton in, Te'O out) + 1 positional (Farrell)
Same front-row;
Lawes and Kruis (or AWJ if he had played on injured)
Same back-row
Murray, Sexton
Farrell, Davies
Same back 3If Stander is going well, I'd put him on the bench instead of Warburton as Stander might be able to make yards when he comes on (but has not done that as well in 2017 as in 2016). Again, that is tough on Warburton, but Stander would offer a difference off the bench.
Tipuric would be a genuinely different option, but Gatland/Howley have not given him much time in a Welsh shirt over the years, so it is too late for a change of heart / game-plan.I'd probably opt for Henderson - like Itoje he gives lock/6 cover.
2 locks on the bench would give the starting pair the scope to flog themselves for 50-60 minutes to counter Retallick/Whitelock/Read.The one other bench option would be to have Joseph, again to provide something different: Halfpenny will not break open a game with a run/step.
Bench:
I'd make a bit more change to the bench with 3 changes and changing to a 6-2 split to give different back-5 forward options to the first Test.
Same front row
Itoje, Henderson, Stander
Webb, Joseph
Also there might be more positive benefit from the promotion of 4 players into the matchday squad (Lawes, Henderson, Stander, Joseph) compared to the negative impact of 4 players going out of the squad (AWJ, Warburton, Te'O, Halfpenny).It might not make sense to others who read it, but neither does doing the same again!
Tough on AWJ, Te'O to go from starting to out of the squad, but this is the toughest arena so hard choices have to be made.Can definitely see your thinking, but Murray, Sexton, Farrell just doesn't work for me.
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calling in the big guns for comments now!
Surely getting a out of context comment from BOD would be best?
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In other words - Dour piece of shit blames everyone else for his averageness.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11882307
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Won't get anything close to this, but would personally go with the lineup below. Obviously a chance for a few players to make a case against the Chiefs and will be interesting to see who gets pulled early.
More changes than it's probably wise to make tomake, but would have Itoje and Tipuric starting. Both have superb line speed defensively and are capable of reaching players behind the gainline, before they are a threat. Lions defence forced to be very passive and reactive to some superb AB attacking play close to the ruck, punching up the middle. Keen on established combinations where possible and George, Kruis and Itoje is about as good as it gets in the NH from a lineout perspective, which would be needed as whilst Tipuric is a decent option, he's not in POM's class on that front. Stander has grown into the tour and like the idea of someone with a little more dynamism at 6.
Harsh on Te'o in the backs, but I don't think we are going to win a test on this tour playing two non-distributing centres in him and Davies. Think we should roll the dice here and give Sexton/Farrell a go from the start.
Bench-wise, gone for a 6-2 split with impact being the main focus. Halfpenny's a fantastic kicker and decent defensive full back, but we are more likely to be chasing the game when the bench is emptied and I'm not sure he's what's required when there are two international kickers in the 23. Captaincy a bit of an issue and would give it to Sexton or Farrell from that lot.
1.Mako Vunipola
2.Jamie George
3.Tadhg Furlong
4.Maro Itoje
5.George Kruis
6.CJ Stander
7.Justin Tipuric
8.Taulupe Faletau
9.Conor Murray
10.Jonathan Sexton
11.Elliot Daly
12.Owen Farrell
13.Jonathan Davies
14.Anthony Watson
15.Liam WilliamsReserves:
16.Rory Best
17.Jack McGrath
18.Kyle Sinckler
19.Courtney Lawes
20.Ian Henderson
21.Sean O'Brien
22.Rhys Webb
23.Jack NowellIn reality, I suspect Itoje (AWJ) and Warburton(POM) will come in. Possibly also Sexton either as a straight swap at 10 or a 10/12 combination with Farrell as above.
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@Donsteppa we hear the same BS every year about the thuggish AB's, yet we do the same as others...as for targeting players, I seem to recall a former AB captain having his head targeted frequently and players rarely getting sufficient sanctions.
While I know it is a stretch, I saw a comment the other day that you could argue (with a very long bow) that the Lions were targeting Ben SMith and his succeptibility to head knocks by putting kicks for him to take knowing a slight mis-time from him or them might mean another knock...
Rugby is a physical contact sport, where contesting the ball is a huge part of the game, and when a 110kg fella is running at you full tilt to stop a kick, he gets you, he misses you, there is gonna be contact, most of the time legal, every now and then there wil be late ones, and in most of those cases it is accidental
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@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Long term forecast ...
http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/wellington/wellington-city#!/ten-day
Rain
Nor'easterlies
13
10Bloody Wellington. You had one job.
That's the one job Wellington is incapable of doing well.
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
In other words - Dour piece of shit blames everyone else for his averageness.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11882307
Exactly but on the plus side every time this cretin opens his mouth and the all blacks job gets further out of reach .
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This is nothing new from Gatland. Remember him carrying on like a farking idiot after the Carter high tackle. Lost all respect for the prick after that. I don't care what the guy may have accomplished for Waikato back in the early 90s. He's a fuckwit and I hope the ABs bury him.
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@taniwharugby whinge articles featuring quotes by nobodies make my nipples hard
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
calling in the big guns for comments now!
Surely getting a out of context comment from BOD would be best?
Most of that bile trawl by stuff is really a re-hash of Matt Stevens comments, and a nothing to see here by Clive, Gats you're doing it wrong.
Matt Stevens obviously didn't notice what Faletau was doing in that 'incident'.
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I'm not nearly as offended as Gregor Paul seems to be, coaches are going to call other sides dirty from time to time - I'm pretty sure Henry and Hansen both called out players laying shots on McCaw.
Historically, talking shit has been a mistake for opposing sides. Tends to wake them up a little.
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Gatland's comments appear to be in response to Kaino's actions on one particular occasion. And I have no problem with him saying something. In that instance, Kaino can't say he is trying to charge down the kick from Murray, or tackle him.
The other stuff is all part of the game as kickers get hassled all the time.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Gatland's comments appear to be in response to Kaino's actions on one particular occasion. And I have no problem with him saying something. In that instance, Kaino can't say he is trying to charge down the kick from Murray, or tackle him.
The other stuff is all part of the game as kickers get hassled all the time.
Was that the ruck where the Lions 8 pushed Kaino over?
