All Blacks 2025
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@Kiwiwomble Potentially. Undoubtedly there are societal changes, but these are far from unique to New Zealand (even if some of the changes at younger age-groups to focus away from winning may make these worse).
I still think to ascend to the All Blacks, you'd have to beat out so many players that means you have the competitive edge. Different guys show it differently, but I struggle to think you could make it to the ABs purely on natural ability.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
Its been a fast move from Rieko’s a fluffybunny and playing like shit as a result, to Rieko’s a fluffybunny and that’s just what we need.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble Potentially. Undoubtedly there are societal changes, but these are far from unique to New Zealand
once again not something i actually said
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it.You've missed the point.......there are no arseholes or enforcers to select. Thats the issue.
Jon Smit pushes Thorns head into the turf. Brad is having none of it.
He gets a yellow in 2025 for sure, but we aint taking a backwards step.Too many teams know they are not going to get their collars felt by the modern day Allblacks.
As another poster alluded to, tackling guys into touch and then helping them up. Fuck that.
Rub their heads into the dirt. It's a mental game too.
We think we can just out skill everyone. Sometimes you just need to out hunger and out mongrel them.
I used to love the next test match after an Allblacks defeat.
Because nobody puts baby in the corner, twice in a row. We would be fizzing.
The Kapa O Pango game etc.Similarly, within the squad it all seems to be pally pally. There should be an edge. Imagine all these players autobiographies. "yeah we all played playstation and got on great".
The press conferences from our Coaches, Robinson and the players is laced with non committal corporate drivel.
When a ref hatchets us, no-one says anything.
Its infuriating.
Smashing a bloke then helping him up sends a message too. Agree on the press conferences, but that is mostly players being trained to trot out clichés, not what they actually think.
We just aren't good enough. Being dicks isn't going to fix that. -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
I don't think Retallick. Coles sure.
Not whitelock, not mccaw, not read, not 3xsmiths, not nonu etc. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it accurately sums 'them' up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
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For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, we're not thaaat far off. There were some pretty ordinary areas last year (loose forwards, backline as a whole) and a whole lot of variability in terms of performance (the high of Ireland away down to maybe the Argentina loss?) but over all we got close. We could have won both in SA (and probably should have won at least the first), and France away we lost by a point.
Yes the England games were all close and could have gone either way, and one Aussie game the same, but the flip side of that coin is those defeats above turn around.
It wouldn't take much to develop this side in to something formidable.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it sums them up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
Ardie's motivation seems pretty heavily tied in with his religion. Nothing wrong with that of course. So long as it works.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I expect the 2025 squad to be the 2024 squad with maaaaybe some fiddling around the edges, and the test team to be the same as last year as well. That's kinda depressing really.
I think you'll be right on this. I expect most of us will be able to pick 90% of the squad.
But, I think there's a significant jump to test level from Super rugby, so most of the best prospects take time to get acclimatised - so there's a bit of disincentive to change.
But, more importantly, we never have to deal with any man-management issues associated with dropping a player. For example, if you were to drop Ardie - as many were advocating last year - you'd be feeling a bit sick right now if he'd signed a multi-million dollar contract to fuck off to Japan.
Maybe, possibly also hopeful as I think it might force the AB coaches to get balance in our backrow.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
All of the teams that wo the RWC were niggly af.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
All of the teams that wo the RWC were niggly af.
As per Duluth, all the teams that aren't us are niggly AF. I don't think they were more niggly in the years they won, we were just more irritated by them. Our winning teams weren't particularly niggly.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
Yeah - 124kg. He doesn't need more weight on his frame at his age. He will put weight on naturally as he gets older.
He derserves to be called up. He has huge potential and reminds me of of a young retallick with his high workrate
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Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet.. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
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