All Blacks 2025
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
I’m hearing you , and I am a dinosaur 😀
Culturally something has shifted big time in my time of following, hate to say it but this is where I feel a bit jealous of the boks , they aren’t necessarily better but shit I admire their ruthlessness.
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God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it.You've missed the point.......there are no arseholes or enforcers to select. Thats the issue.
Jon Smit pushes Thorns head into the turf. Brad is having none of it.
He gets a yellow in 2025 for sure, but we aint taking a backwards step.Too many teams know they are not going to get their collars felt by the modern day Allblacks.
As another poster alluded to, tackling guys into touch and then helping them up. Fuck that.
Rub their heads into the dirt. It's a mental game too.
We think we can just out skill everyone. Sometimes you just need to out hunger and out mongrel them.
I used to love the next test match after an Allblacks defeat.
Because nobody puts baby in the corner, twice in a row. We would be fizzing.
The Kapa O Pango game etc.Similarly, within the squad it all seems to be pally pally. There should be an edge. Imagine all these players autobiographies. "yeah we all played playstation and got on great".
The press conferences from our Coaches, Robinson and the players is laced with non committal corporate drivel.
When a ref hatchets us, no-one says anything.
Its infuriating.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
i got a bit of a roasting when i pointed this out...but i was annoyed/surprised after the home loss to Ireland and Ardie coming into the press conference and when asked said they didnt know it was the first home loss and series loss to ireland, didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
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@Kiwiwomble Can it also not be true that some of these guys just aren’t that good.
On paper, our pack compared to Ireland’s was inferior… not sure that has ever been the case. Whoever we put out, the backline is always there or thereabouts, but for sometime now we have looked world class blindsides/number eights. Harry Wilson for example, walks into the ABs but possibly doesn’t even start for Australia.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble Can it also not be true that some of these guys just aren’t that good.
On paper, our pack compared to Ireland’s was inferior… not sure that has ever been the case. Whoever we put out, the backline is always there or thereabouts, but for sometime now we have looked world class blindsides/number eights. Harry Wilson for example, walks into the ABs but possibly doesn’t even start for Australia.
not claiming that knowing the history would have guaranteed a win, just another factor in the same vein as @Jet 's post the changing cultures we're witnessing
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@Kiwiwomble Potentially. Undoubtedly there are societal changes, but these are far from unique to New Zealand (even if some of the changes at younger age-groups to focus away from winning may make these worse).
I still think to ascend to the All Blacks, you'd have to beat out so many players that means you have the competitive edge. Different guys show it differently, but I struggle to think you could make it to the ABs purely on natural ability.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
Its been a fast move from Rieko’s a fluffybunny and playing like shit as a result, to Rieko’s a fluffybunny and that’s just what we need.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble Potentially. Undoubtedly there are societal changes, but these are far from unique to New Zealand
once again not something i actually said
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
God you guys are full of shit sometimes. Let's go and select a team of arseholes who won't help opposition players up and mouth off at them like James Lowe whenever possible then eh - using those as selection criteria is sure to lead to success. Anyone care to pick a XV? Or even a single player who should be selected over an incumbent on those criteria?
We aren't dominating because we're not good enough: our players, our tactics, our selections. Foster wasn't ruthless enough on selections, Robinson wasn't ruthless enough on Foster - that's about it.You've missed the point.......there are no arseholes or enforcers to select. Thats the issue.
Jon Smit pushes Thorns head into the turf. Brad is having none of it.
He gets a yellow in 2025 for sure, but we aint taking a backwards step.Too many teams know they are not going to get their collars felt by the modern day Allblacks.
As another poster alluded to, tackling guys into touch and then helping them up. Fuck that.
Rub their heads into the dirt. It's a mental game too.
We think we can just out skill everyone. Sometimes you just need to out hunger and out mongrel them.
I used to love the next test match after an Allblacks defeat.
Because nobody puts baby in the corner, twice in a row. We would be fizzing.
The Kapa O Pango game etc.Similarly, within the squad it all seems to be pally pally. There should be an edge. Imagine all these players autobiographies. "yeah we all played playstation and got on great".
The press conferences from our Coaches, Robinson and the players is laced with non committal corporate drivel.
When a ref hatchets us, no-one says anything.
Its infuriating.
Smashing a bloke then helping him up sends a message too. Agree on the press conferences, but that is mostly players being trained to trot out clichés, not what they actually think.
We just aren't good enough. Being dicks isn't going to fix that. -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
I don't think Retallick. Coles sure.
Not whitelock, not mccaw, not read, not 3xsmiths, not nonu etc. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it accurately sums 'them' up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
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For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, we're not thaaat far off. There were some pretty ordinary areas last year (loose forwards, backline as a whole) and a whole lot of variability in terms of performance (the high of Ireland away down to maybe the Argentina loss?) but over all we got close. We could have won both in SA (and probably should have won at least the first), and France away we lost by a point.
Yes the England games were all close and could have gone either way, and one Aussie game the same, but the flip side of that coin is those defeats above turn around.
It wouldn't take much to develop this side in to something formidable.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it sums them up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
Ardie's motivation seems pretty heavily tied in with his religion. Nothing wrong with that of course. So long as it works.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I expect the 2025 squad to be the 2024 squad with maaaaybe some fiddling around the edges, and the test team to be the same as last year as well. That's kinda depressing really.
I think you'll be right on this. I expect most of us will be able to pick 90% of the squad.
But, I think there's a significant jump to test level from Super rugby, so most of the best prospects take time to get acclimatised - so there's a bit of disincentive to change.
But, more importantly, we never have to deal with any man-management issues associated with dropping a player. For example, if you were to drop Ardie - as many were advocating last year - you'd be feeling a bit sick right now if he'd signed a multi-million dollar contract to fuck off to Japan.
Maybe, possibly also hopeful as I think it might force the AB coaches to get balance in our backrow.
