B&I Lions 2017
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@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Because Scotland haven't provided many players to the side over the last number of tours. That feeds into prejudice in selectors' minds. The coaching team is made up of Welsh and English coaches which creates an inevitable bias towards the players they know (and think can resurrect themselves) as opposed to ones they don't Gray Bros, Dunbar, Maitland, Watson, Jones, etc.
I'm curious if Laidlaw and Nel were available and were selected today, along with Hogg and Seymour and say Maitland and Dunbar, would that have been enough? Or was there a wider expectation of say 8-10 places?
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Because Scotland haven't provided many players to the side over the last number of tours. That feeds into prejudice in selectors' minds. The coaching team is made up of Welsh and English coaches which creates an inevitable bias towards the players they know (and think can resurrect themselves) as opposed to ones they don't Gray Bros, Dunbar, Maitland, Watson, Jones, etc.
I'm curious if Laidlaw and Nel were available and were selected today, along with Hogg and Seymour and say Maitland and Dunbar, would that have been enough? Or was there a wider expectation of say 8-10 places?
I think that would more than suffice . 8-10 is fantasy stuff....
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@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Because Scotland haven't provided many players to the side over the last number of tours. That feeds into prejudice in selectors' minds. The coaching team is made up of Welsh and English coaches which creates an inevitable bias towards the players they know (and think can resurrect themselves) as opposed to ones they don't Gray Bros, Dunbar, Maitland, Watson, Jones, etc.
I'm curious if Laidlaw and Nel were available and were selected today, along with Hogg and Seymour and say Maitland and Dunbar, would that have been enough? Or was there a wider expectation of say 8-10 places?
I think that would more than suffice . 8-10 is fantasy stuff....
Fair enough, so who gets dropped to make way from the selection today?
Laidlaw for Youngs/Webb?
Nel for Sinckler?
Dunbar for Davies?
Russell for Biggar?
Maitland ??
Gray for Henderson?
Watson for ?? -
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Because Scotland haven't provided many players to the side over the last number of tours. That feeds into prejudice in selectors' minds. The coaching team is made up of Welsh and English coaches which creates an inevitable bias towards the players they know (and think can resurrect themselves) as opposed to ones they don't Gray Bros, Dunbar, Maitland, Watson, Jones, etc.
I'm curious if Laidlaw and Nel were available and were selected today, along with Hogg and Seymour and say Maitland and Dunbar, would that have been enough? Or was there a wider expectation of say 8-10 places?
I think that would more than suffice . 8-10 is fantasy stuff....
Fair enough, so who gets dropped to make way from the selection today?
Laidlaw for Youngs/Webb?
Nel for Sinckler?
Dunbar for Davies?
Russell for Biggar?
Maitland ??
Gray for Henderson?
Watson for ??That looks completely realistic. Throw Sean Lamont in for a swansong too
There's obviously gonna be a heap of 50/50 calls and it's hard to see the Scots getting any benefit from those.
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@Bones said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 not sure I can buy into a precious moan from someone who probably watched about 5 minutes of 6N rugby....
5 minutes is being generous, however if rugby writers can get paid for watching about the same amount I reserve my right to be outraged and appalled on an internet forum.
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in the interest of fairness and political correctness, each nation should have provided and equal number of players, and then given certificates to the ones that would have gone if not for being overlooked in the name of fairness.
I also thnk the Lions should play Payne in the game in Whangarei to make local fans happy, what say you @Stargazer
@MN5 which rugby writers get paid to watch 5 minutes?
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean 2 Jocks.
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean said in B&I Lions 2017:
Predictable squad.
A mercenary and only one Scot.
Two
Well then, I don't know what they're complaining about.
@raznomore said in B&I Lions 2017:
Is Hartley hard done by or actually too shit for selection?
I'd say he's hard done by. I don't think they could select a better set piece hooker.
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@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Because rankings don't tell much at all -- a couple of wins and they've shot up.There is one person who has made Scotland much better -- Vern Cotter. The players haven't got that much better suddenly.
You should treasure Scotland's current ranking now, because in a few years it could be much worse. If I was ranking on long-term ability, Scotland would be 10th. Which is where they usually dwell, come to think of it.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
And how's that Highlander's pack looking now? How many of them would be current ABs?
The AB selectors didn't overlook the Highlanders in 2015 any more they overlooked the red-hot Chiefs after their first Super Championship. Slowly -- because the Chiefs kept winning -- players started to make the ABs. Some things need distance to be seen properly.
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Is Laidlaw injured? Surely he'd be one of the 3 best 9s?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in B&I Lions 2017:
Is Laidlaw injured? Surely he'd be one of the 3 best 9s?
He was injured during the 6N. No idea if he still is.
Murray looks to be uncertain due to nerve injury.
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You could probably make a case for Laidlaw as 3rd SH and a possible midweek captain, but he does not present a running threat, unlike the three guys chosen.
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And the All Blacks' boss has taken a few return pot shots at Gatland in a goalkicking war-of-words in the lead up to the three-test rugby series.
When told by Radio Sport's Martin Devlin that Gatland had placed a lot of store on the Irish players who had withstood the All Blacks comeback in Chicago, Hansen said: "I'm pretty happy that our guys got some confidence beating Ireland in Ireland.
"You are clutching at straws if that's how you are selecting teams. You pick players who can do the job you want them to do, who play the style of game you want to play.
"They've got enough good players there. It's not about picking teams who beat us in Chicago."
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"They have some very very good goal kickers, no disputing that, and goalkicking is very important to the game, no disputing that, but it's all about how you deal with the pressure in the big moments. Our guys in the big moments have done us proud, Beauden and Crudes (Aaron Cruden).
"Lima (Sopoaga) will come back and he's a very good goalkicker. It's under pressure which counts, not the ones in front."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11841716
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This is what Gatland said. Hardly controversial I would think. It's going to be a long 6 weeks...
"You're trying to deliver that message sometimes when you're playing the All Blacks about confidence and self-belief," he explained.
"You're not too sure when you get that glazed look from the players if they honestly believe that!
"So, Ireland doing that in Chicago was pretty special, especially considering at 27-8 at half-time, you think they're going to comfortably do it.
"To see the All Blacks come back and almost look like they were going to steal it and then for the Irish to, in that last 10 minutes, put them under pressure - and to see some of those world class players be human, make some mistakes, show some frailties - that gives you that self-belief and confidence.
"You're trying to deliver that message to put players and teams under pressure - that they're human and will make mistakes.
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So, they've picked their squad, and it looks really solid. Some seriously talented players, especially in the pack, and solid in the backs.
If you are Gatland and the coaching staff, what are your focuses? Given the short prep to gel the side, what things to you focus hard on?
Set piece is a given, especially the lineout, where we have relived/created so much pressure over the past few years.
Kick chase. They'll have really good kickers, but it's the organisation of the chase that will dictate. We're brutal on poor kicking/chasing, if you can limit those opportunities, you'll force us to look for points elsewhere.
Defense. I'm not sure i would be using Gatland's favoured rush defense, because if one guy gets out of sync, Barrett will skin them. I would have a soft lift, and aim to be organised and really hard just beyond the gain line. High tackles in numbers to slow the ball down, and don't focus on the ball runner, look at that fucking forward 2 out that we make so many metres off. As ever when you are playing us, the ability to be able to switch very quickly from attack to defense on turnover will be key.
We'll do our usual kicking a lot, don't give it back to us. I think, given our resources, it's possible to keep the ball against us for long periods, if you are accurate enough. Keep the ball, wear us down, power run the fringes, and look to punch through there, have the wings/FB sniffing around those running back rowers. I think it's where we've looked the most vulnerable in recent years. Force the locks in particular to make a fuck load of tackles, and wear them down.We don't lose a lot, so there isn't that much to go on, but if you can limit our broken field opportunities, and slow the ball down to minimise mismatches, you can force us to play a game we're not that far ahead in, and maybe expose our weakness in goal kicking. That's what i would be focusing on.
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@mariner4life Gatland and Howley aren't about to change their spots. Farrell Sr isn't about to develop a new defensive system either. Disparate players trying to play slightly different systems next to guys they don't often play alongside will give us opportunities.
It will be maul, maul, bash, bash and any inventiveness will come down to individual players playing what they see.
They'll be just as good as us in the set piece, probably better at mauling. They'll secure ball well in the forwards because they'll send more players in than we will. I expect them to send a lot of traffic down the narrow channels and rely on ol' cyclops to kick points.
It's counterattack where we'll skin them unless the weather becomes an equalizer.
