Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless. -
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
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@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
Yes exactly. They are basically 2 packs that train against each other. The running the ball looks a bit ponderous, almost as if the players don't buy into it.
Scrumhalf is a big concern. Williams great as a sub to lift things. Cobus is starting to show his age. Missed Faf. -
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Oathkeepers?
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@voodoo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
" its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly! "
Um, no it's actually really easy, and happens at pretty much every arrival into every airport, but your point about preciousness remains!
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@Lancaster-Park said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So for three games in a row our bench hasnt added value.
Who goes onto the bench to improve that?
Loosies still not what we want but do we even have the cattle for what we want?Bench changes:
Savea. Needs a rocket, and a better option than a gunshy and nervous Finau. Sititi to start, we've lost the championship and if you're gonna pick him you should be prepared to play him.
TJP. Just a handbrake. Give Ratima a start, and use the guy who won't be nervous late - which is also when defences are a bit slower and his inaccurate passing is under less pressure.
Taylor. Been very good, but Aumua is clearly feeling the pressure coming on late which is a real risk as lineout thrower - swap roles.
Beauden. Been shit. Historically best as a bench player so may be worth a go in that role. Shat the bed closing out the last game though so may be better off dropping completely out.
I don't see any point in carrying a specialist winger on the bench and subbing them as a matter of course. We have a heap of guys who could cover wing in the event of injury.
ALB is fine. Props are fine. -
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I don't see any point in carrying a specialist winger on the bench
Razor's stated philosophy is to have players capable of playing two positions. So his massive backline reshuffles may be him actually trying to live that ideal.
I am very cautious of that approach. It's hard enough to get to Test level in one position, let alone two. But ya never know - maybe he's a mad genius who can do things with players that other coaches can't.
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@Smuts said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Oathkeepers?
Pactmakers
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I agree a bench specialist winger is not necessary depending on the backline. I'm thinking we need to replace Cane at 60 minutes, it must take a lot of energy to stop those big bruisers and his tackling seems to get more wayward (ie more dangerous/penallty-prone) later in the game.
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@Snowy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@voodoo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
" its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly! "
Um, no it's actually really easy, and happens at pretty much every arrival into every airport, but your point about preciousness remains!
And if anyone on this forum would know, it's you Snowy.
Not sure the game management had thought of being in direct contact with air traffic control though... And if they were, the bloomin DJ probably drowned out their comms anyway. -
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.Not necessarily.
There were a number of distinct differences on the weekend when the ABs attacked - DMac standing deeper when 1st receiver, the forward carriers + Ioane in a different formation creating space. This showed in both where we were playing also - in the Boks half.
We respected the ball and for a good part of that first 50-60 minutes we showed a bit of poise.What we’ve done for many years now, dating back to Carter, Cruden etc, mixed in Garry Owens but it’s been a while since we had good consistent chasing that made a contest (Howlett, Jane, Dagg).
The chip kicks are hope / prayers that very rarely get answered though and a low % play.
The long cut out balls rather than trusting the process of forward set up, is a recipe for disaster.
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@ACT-Crusader how dare you suggest Ioane is involved in creating space when irrelevant stats say otherwise!
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader how dare you suggest Ioane is involved in creating space when irrelevant stats say otherwise!
You can be a starting All Black now when your main contribution is being a dummy runner who would have thought.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
It won't happen but would be nice to see what plummer could do off the bench.
Genuinely interested in what role you see him playing with the cattle in front of him.
I think DMac will be getting as much time as possible at 1st 5. Last night was only his 11th start at 1st 5 and he’s only played 6 tests off the bench where he was moved to 1st 5. Yes he’s got super experience at 10, but he needs to continue to develop in this role.
We do need other options no doubt about it and perhaps Plummer could be a 12 option, but it seems ALB has that bench spot sewn up.
Given we've been pumped 34-0 in the last 3 tests over the final 20 minutes I don't think any player on the bench should have their position sewn up.
We look directionless at the end of games and could badly use someone who could use their boot to help get us in good positions on the park.
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I agree a bench specialist winger is not necessary depending on the backline. I'm thinking we need to replace Cane at 60 minutes, it must take a lot of energy to stop those big bruisers and his tackling seems to get more wayward (ie more dangerous/penallty-prone) later in the game.
The subs need to be reviewed and the timing of when they come on be adjusted. I think having someone in the 8 who only plays wing is ridiculous. To me the starters that need replacing are the forwards, especially the front row, the halfback and centre position(s) so we should consider a 6-2 split. I also think our subs need to come on earlier in the game (and not just when they play South Africa). These are fit players who often play 80 minutes in Super Rugby - they should be able to handle 30 minutes of test rugby. Putting subs on with 10 or 15 minutes to go in the game is a waste of time and I think results in more errors from them as they strive to make a difference in a more limited time.
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@darylmitchell said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The subs need to be reviewed and the timing of when they come on be adjusted.
That is the big issue. It's unlikely a sub will have much impact when they get only 10 mins on the field. I also agree that Telea on the bench doesn't make sense if you also move Ioane.
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They have got into the situation of replacing players with less capable subs.
What would have happened if the same 15 played for the full 80 -
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
They have got into the situation of replacing players with less capable subs.
What would have happened if the same 15 played for the full 80Razor seemed to want to hang on for as long as possible. He's not confident of his bench either. Now he has to do something about it
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the loose forwards, it does concern me that a bunch of people on a forum known for awful analysis, incorrect conclusions and zero insight could see the problems with the squad selections as soon as they were announced, but the coaching group being paid the big bucks couldn't.
The problem is that because Razor was appointed so long ago he and his assistants have had ages to plan and prepare and formulate their squad and the game plan they want to play - obviously lots of Crusaders involved in those plans but not exclusively. And then super rugby happens and the Crusaders are shit and lots of blokes who weren’t in his plans show form and talent. So what we end up with is a complete mishmash that lacks balance in key areas, form, fitness, and also players who complement each other and who can implement the game plan that the coaches want to play. I will give Razor this year to move on from the crusaders and realise he’s the national coach responsible for coaching a team to play and win test matches.
