All Blacks vs Fiji
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Crazy-Horse exactly this. better link play than anyone else has shown so far.
Although I guess if link play was a priority then you'd pick Hoskins.You mean at 6 not loosies per se? As Ardie links best...
No, I mean all the loosies, in the 3 tests so far this year. Not that surprising for Dalton, Jacobson, Finau.
Savea was very good in the WC, he hasn't been very good this year (yet, hopefully).The other thing Blackadder tried a few times was running a hard line one off the ruck at pace. The halfback didn't give him the ball, but thought it was worth noting due to the (correct) whinge some were making about our runners in the previous tests being static.
I don't think he was amazing or anything, just that it was a solid first outing for a while and he showed a few things that his other loosies have not this year. Honestly I'd barely give the performance two sentences if it weren't for all the absurdly negative comments on here. Bloke was picked despite injuries and it's a reasonable argument that he shouldn't have been - but that's on the selectors, not him.
And I'm not a Crusaders person.
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I personally am struggling to see why anyone would even think Ioane on the wing. I know he used to be good there, but hasn't played there for a few years that I can recall, and so we picking people on what they did 3-4 years ago is fraught with problems to me.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I personally am struggling to see why anyone would even think Ioane on the wing. I know he used to be good there, but hasn't played there for a few years that I can recall, and so we picking people on what they did 3-4 years ago is fraught with problems to me.
also....we dont need wings, we have a few very string options
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I personally am struggling to see why anyone would even think Ioane on the wing. I know he used to be good there, but hasn't played there for a few years that I can recall, and so we picking people on what they did 3-4 years ago is fraught with problems to me.
Fine, we'll put him on the bench then.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Proctor was on debut and also not selected in the squad when not even fit ahead of guys in brilliant form.
I expect a lot more from a guy who gets put on such a pedestal that he's even allowed to work his way back to fitness from a starting position in the ABs when there's already fit guys that have shown just as much in black.
But yeah, he plays for the crusaders I guess.
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@Crazy-Horse No worries mate, as I said, I just don't get the wing thing is all. No worries if he on bench or whatever.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre
actually executing the core skills of a centre.from the Canes.Fixed.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre
actually executing the core skills of a centre.from the Canes.Fixed.
How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical. The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.
Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot. The ball is back in Reiko’s court now.
I’m happy if the ABs keep Ioane at 13 because he has all the attributes but he hasn’t been in form all year. They made a good point on the Breakdown last night that Ioane’s failure to put away his outsides in the first two tests is largely down to how the Blues played this year, where carrying the ball and using blunt force to tire opposition defences is now hampering in the ABs because that isn’t how Razor wants to play. If Ioane can get his passing game going like he did last year then he’ll remain our number 1. Competition from Proctor is good though as it will force pressure on Ioane which will hopefully bring out his best.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre
actually executing the core skills of a centre.from the Canes.Fixed.
How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.
LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.
The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.
After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.
Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.
I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.
I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre
actually executing the core skills of a centre.from the Canes.Fixed.
How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.
LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.
The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.
After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.
Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.
I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.
I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.
I think anyone getting overly excited about ANY of the debutants ( or ALB for the matter ) needs to remember who they played against.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
The last scrum he was stepped and beaten on the inside. If it wasn't for ALB cleaning up, Fiji were on their way to the try line.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre
actually executing the core skills of a centre.from the Canes.Fixed.
How about focusing on the 98% of things he did well. I remember the play, Proctor was pushing out and the Fijian player stepped in so therefore he becomes ALB’s man. ALB actually missed him if you want to get technical.
LOL It's ALB's fault he didn't cover two men while Proctor got done like a dinner. I suppose it's easy to be considered a defensive genius when every tackle you miss was someone else's fault.
The Fijian player passed back inside and that’s when the play broke down.
After ALB got a hand to it which is where the knock on call came from.
Face it mate, you’re trying to poke holes in Proctor’s solid debut performance because you know Ioane has pressure on him. If Ioane fails to perform Proctor will happily take his spot.
I'm happy that the All Blacks have competition for spots. I'm happy for Proctor to make his case. If he plays well enough I'm even happy for him to be rewarded appropriately.
I'm just getting sick of the delusions and rampant bias. He played reasonably well against Fiji and you're trying to pretend that should be the basis for him replacing Ioane who played against England ffs.
See my comment above, I’ve literally said if Ioane can get back to his best he should hold that jersey being the incumbent. There’s no bias on my part. As a Canes fan I’m obviously stoked for Proctor, he played bloody well but Ioane deserves another opportunity to show why he’s been our first choice for the last few years. Hopefully he can get that passing game going again. I care about the ABs reaching their full potential, it’s only a good thing that we have guys competing for jerseys because it will ensure players are on notice and don’t take their jerseys for granted. I want Ioane to start in the next test so he has an opportunity to counter. Both Proctor and Ioane have their strengths at the end of the day, as long as they bring the best out of each other, that’s what I care about and that’s something that Razor will be trying to do across all positions.
Same goes with ALB and Jordie, Jordie’s shown that he has lapses in concentration throughout games and has a tendency to do dumb shit when it’s not necessary. ALB playing well the other day will put Jordie on notice and he’ll have to sharpen up aswell. Likewise with Aumua and Taylor, Hotham coming in and playing well will put guys like Christie on notice. It’s all good in my view.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Proctor was on debut and also not selected in the squad when not even fit ahead of guys in brilliant form.
I expect a lot more from a guy who gets put on such a pedestal that he's even allowed to work his way back to fitness from a starting position in the ABs when there's already fit guys that have shown just as much in black.
But yeah, he plays for the crusaders I guess.
So yeah, holding his selection against him when he wasn't the guy doing the selecting.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Proctor was on debut and also not selected in the squad when not even fit ahead of guys in brilliant form.
I expect a lot more from a guy who gets put on such a pedestal that he's even allowed to work his way back to fitness from a starting position in the ABs when there's already fit guys that have shown just as much in black.
But yeah, he plays for the crusaders I guess.
So yeah, holding his selection against him when he wasn't the guy doing the selecting.
Really good point. Consider me a convert then. It's not Christie's fault he's not very good, it's the selectors! So there's zero reason to select others instead of him, he's trying at least.
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Yup, the team who have beaten England and Australia in the last 9 months 😉
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Tosi made almost as many tackles as Blackadder, Blackadder accounts for almost 20% of missed tackles.
Yeah he had a great game.
Or, attempted more tackles than anyone else - despite lacking match fitness and 'couldn't keep up', 'struggled with the pace'.
Meanwhile Proctor misses 3 and is the messiah who needs to urgently replace one of our best players from the WC (and I say that as a long time Ioane doubter).Read into those stats all you like but a couple of those misses weren't necessarily one on one misses. Proctor put himself into a few situations where, because of his high work rate off the ball he made a couple lunges on the next player out after covering the guy he was marking up on. Maybe he shouldn't have made those attempts and let the player who was meant to be covering those guys take the hit, but that's the sort of player Proctor is, he always pushes hard.
He's the best defensive centre in NZ and that's the biggest reason he's been picked.
He got easily stepped and beaten in the last play of the game.
What, the last play where he managed to nab back possession anyway? You’re really knit picking his performance.
It think it was quite refreshing to have a centre actually executing the core skills of a centre.
It was. Proctor had an outstanding game. Of course against limited opposition but he couldn't have done more
Two of his misses were, as you said, VG attempts. Unsure about the third miss
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
All Blacks player ratings: Debutant sends ‘warning’ to Rieko Ioane after ‘remarkably’ good shift
Following the All Blacks’ 47-5 win over Fiji in San Diego, here are our player ratings for the New Zealand side.
13 Billy Proctor: Player of the match on debut and some warning to Rieko Ioane that his jersey is not safe. Proctor looked potent as if he was going to cut through the defence with every carry, beating eight defenders and nearly making 100 metres with the ball. This all culminated in a try and two try assists for a man who has just made Scott Robertson’s selection process a lot harder. A remarkably good start to his Test career. 9
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I thought Proctor was great but kudos to ALB for giving him some quality ball and space.
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Ahh the joys of statistics.
EB tackles 7/4 horrific and almost 20% of all missed tackles
Aumua great performance but still only has a 50% tackle rate.
Not happy for a 7 to have a 7/4 tackle rate but equally amazed that a hooker only manages 50%It was such a different game from the last two weeks, pressure, space, defensive approach that its very hard to compare the performances.
Well done the new guys who had their chances and performed well though.
