All Blacks vs England I
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Watched a snippet on X from All Blacks (I think).
Had to watch several times.
Got to watch Vaa'i.
He releases, and grabs the ball.
Dalton then crashes into him as he's trying to lift.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs England I:
if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7,
Agree with everything but this.
I'm struggling to think of a time this millennium where that wasn't the job of the openside.
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All Blacks vs England takeaways: The Perenara fade away, Razor's defensive concern
We saw a number of new things from the All Blacks under Razor and his coaching staff, here are four takeaways from the first Test.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs England I:
if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7,
Agree with everything but this.
I'm struggling to think of a time this millennium where that wasn't the job of the openside.
i agree although i took him to mean, and i may have read my own thoughts into it, if your 6 is doing that then he should be a 6...i.e. 7 not a jackal threat
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This was very nice work:
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
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@Machpants I was just trying to recall too.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
Nah, they didn’t call it. I was wondering if the radio link between the touchy and the ref was playing up because it looks like the touchy was trying to say something but play went on.
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@pakman Q4
Also scrappy. Pressure led English to concede three kickable ruck penalties, of which two converted within time.
That said, English press nullified AB backline attack.
In last ten we also got no change from one-off runs from ruck, Aumua excepted. Vaa'i and three 6.5s not the best for that, although former made ground twice in looser play with some footwork.
Excellent scrum penalty at 70 with Newell drilling Bunter, with Itoje slipping off his butt. Ofa also forcing Cole back.
One bad throw in after Aumua baulked. Maul v. good.
Only one promising run in broken play, but BB went for one of his miracle chips when a fast ruck might have split the English.
Couple of excellent Christie box kicks with Reece supplying the hit on catching Furbank.
Winning rugby, against which England offered little in attack in last 30.
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs England I:
Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
They were only off feet after England had conceded the penalty. In fact they were only off feet because England had conceded the penalty.
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs England I:
Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
Agree with that. It was right in front of the touchie. Shades of Cardiff 2007...
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Ian McGeechan's take on England - AB 1. Wish all media commentators could be this clear and incisive.
Steve Borthwick’s England substitutions did not work against the All Blacks
Fin Baxter aside, there will have been a tactical plan for the timing of the replacements but the collective momentum of the team suffered
Steve Borthwick’s approach with England continues to evolve and against New Zealand it found another level. To maintain a good performance, you rely on the tactical nuances introduced by your replacements. For England, that was a mixed bag.
I was not expecting some of the replacements at the times they happened. Alex Mitchell, for instance, was causing New Zealand problems with the speed at which he was playing. England lost a bit of pace after he went off. I know the game changed, mainly because both teams had to work harder at the breakdowns. Losing a second or more there meant the game reverted to more of a kicking battle, and if you are in one of those, you probably want Ben Spencer on the pitch.
In that last 20 minutes, England needed to keep building scores, but they could not manufacture the opportunities that they had created for the tries they scored earlier on, simply because both teams were kicking earlier from the slower breakdowns.
You could say that New Zealand were forced into a kicking game by England’s defence. That two-minute period just before half-time was an unbelievable defensive set that demonstrated the understanding England have built without the ball. It eventually led to a breakdown turnover and three points to tie up the game.
Spencer suits a game that becomes a kicking exchange, but if England were going to keep the pace up, you would have expected maybe 10 more minutes out of Mitchell.
I thought the same of Tom Curry replacing Chandler Cunningham-South. Curry clearly needs game-time because he is not where he was during the World Cup and he conceded a breakdown penalty early on. I can see why Borthwick will have wanted him there, but I would question the timing. Cunningham-South had been receiving treatment, which was the case against Japan a couple of weeks ago as well. Again, though, he was brought off earlier than I expected. He is such a good ball-carrier, which helps drive the collective momentum.
Speed is where New Zealand always seem to hold an advantage over teams. They click into shape so quickly from turnover ball and move it to space. And if they get a quick ruck, they will get cumulative quick rucks. Bringing on Curry, who can be one of the best at the contact area, seemed like an attempt from Borthwick to stop that trend.
There will have been a tactical plan for the timing of the replacements, apart from Fin Baxter taking over from the injured Joe Marler, and an overall approach to go with it. I cannot imagine that fatigue will have been too much of a factor, because they had not played in two weeks. It is more a case of assessing the collective momentum of the team and whether it is being lost.
Fin Smith’s arrival was a good call, in my opinion, as kicking strategy had tightened both teams up. There is a certain physicality about him, and Marcus Smith had missed two penalties, which reflects the pressure that playing in New Zealand puts you under. He did not hit either of them particularly well and Henry Slade could have taken responsibility from the tee.
Playing against the All Blacks in New Zealand is a huge challenge for anyone, let alone a Test debutant, and I thought Baxter did seriously well. With the All Blacks not having played for eight months, I think Borthwick will have seen it as a good opportunity to introduce those young faces to let them appreciate what the level is like.
There is no doubt that England’s scrum was under pressure, which intensified in the second half, but Baxter held things together well and was good away from the scrums, getting involved in the contact area. Until you play in a game like that, you cannot understand where you are and the experience will have given him a valuable reference point. As individuals and as a collective, England will have learned what it takes to get over the line in those contests.
Dan Cole coming on was a technical scrummaging decision, which showed how England were losing control of that area. For Saturday’s game at Eden Park, there must be serious improvements there.
Although Ollie Sleightholme did not get a touch of the ball, he will have felt the atmosphere of a Test in New Zealand and Borthwick deserves credit for that. He is obviously confident in his entire squad, which bodes well.
For both locks to go 80 minutes was quite something, and I thought Maro Itoje and George Martin were outstanding. Itoje picked up a couple of turnovers and Martin was immensely powerful, especially when counter-rucking and causing issues for the All Blacks.
England are still moving in the right direction
Overall, England’s defence built upon their display in Japan and went to another level. Felix Jones has been hammering home the habits he wants and England kept numbers on their feet – they committed to breakdowns only if the first contact was good – and maintained the integrity of the line. For New Zealand to score only 16 points is testament to that.Another example of where England are going came just five minutes into the second half when Immanuel Feyi-Waboso ran back a clearance from Damian McKenzie and linked with Slade to set up a broken-field situation. What followed from there was one of the best attacks I can remember this side putting together and covering more than 60 metres of the pitch.
Feyi-Waboso eventually scored 14 phases later, which was a reward for their conviction on the counter. But another thing that struck me was how two players other than Mitchell, George Furbank and Sam Underhill, stepped up at scrum-half to move the ball away from the breakdown at different times.
To me, when players are ready to play that role, it is always a sign that a team are in sync and able to capitalise on quick ball. They could not quite finish it off, but England are still moving in the right direction, they will become more and more difficult to play against and, for supporters, better and better to watch. A win in Auckland? Very possible.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs England I:
England should start Baby Face Nelson (ranga prop), Spencer and Finn Smith next week
Yes. No. No.
Baxter did very well for a debutant and steadied the scrum a bit which Marler was struggling to do. The other option is Bevan Road and his scrummaging has been found out time and again at test level. Baxter is a shoo-in for selection.
Spencer was sooo much slower than Mitchell and I can only think he was sent on to change the game into a more kick orientated affair but to me it was noticeable that NZ had more time to counter anything that England did once he was on. As good as he's been for Bath all season I just don't feel he has what it takes at this level. I'd prefer to see Randall as the back up.
Finn Smith is still finding his feet and has seemed a bit overawed playing test rugby. I think he has what it takes but it is not quite happening for him just yet. Marcus Smith did a lot of good stuff but those two missed sitters have blotted his copybook. I'd keep him as the starter and maybe have Slade as a back up place kicker if he effs up again.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs England I:
Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
They were only off feet after England had conceded the penalty. In fact they were only off feet because England had conceded the penalty.
Nah, that was not even a 50/50, more like a 20/80 (against the ABs) for me. Scooter in his post game comments said we were very lucky with that last penalty.
