All Blacks vs Wales

Crazy Horse

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Sabalom Glitz" data-cid="585607" data-time="1465353559">
they played 7 tests here during the 2011 world cup. It's probably 7 tests against NZ in NZ.</blockquote>
 
Yeah I realised 7 tests against NZ is what they were meaning. Sloppy wording on my part.

dogmeat

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585609" data-time="1465354192">
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Will be interested in reading any feedback from those old enough to remember 1969.
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That EP world record victory in 69 was the first test match I ever went to.
 
I was a bit young to really appreciate it, but I don't remember the reffing being considered an issue. It was definitely a case of the AB pack monstering them and then the points just kept coming probably due to differing interpretations. I do remember we did a lot of rucking. 33-12 was as one sided an international as there'd ever been and as a kid I actually got a bit bored with how easy it seemed.
 
Mind you it was a really decent AB pack with a serviceable backline. I don't remember it as being as exciting as watching the 67 tests from the UK on TV.
 
The welsh players certainly did get their revenge when I attended my 2nd test match against the Lions two years later.
 
I don't think anyone who didn't live through it can appreciate the profound shock that 71 tour was to the rugby public. Sure we'd lost to the Boks the previous year but that was in SA and they cheated :yes:
 
We simply weren't expecting in our worst nightmares anything other than a AB walkover. Certainly not the humiliation that unfolded. AB teams weren't supposed to be slow, less skilled, less aggressive, tactically naÃ¯ve and years behind in planning and execution. Yet it happened. In large due to that 69 Welsh side. Bastards ;)

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585637" data-time="1465364434">
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Yet it happened. In large due to that 69 Welsh side. Bastards ;)
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And Carwyn James the Lions and Llanelli coach - who was Welsh, though he never coached Wales.

Catogrande

Going back to the autobiography of Gareth Edwards, he wrote about the 69 tour and of course the 71 Lions tour. There was no whining on his part (and by extension the rest of the Welsh team) regarding the 69 tour, the reffing or the itinerary. Sure it was a tough tour and he did state that there was a fair bit of travelling but that was about it. In writing on both tours something he did say was the sheer difficulty of playing bloody tough games one after the other. There were no soft option games. All were very physical and attritional. He also said the foundations for the Lions win in 71 were laid in the Wales tour of 69 and that they knew what they were in for and had a better handle on how to cope.
 
Interestingly (in re the siege mentality bit) Carling had something to say about touring NZ with England - basically that there was NO let up. Not on the playing side, not on the social side, not on the relaxation side. NZ was a beautiful country with lots to see and do but the NZ public are so rugby mad and in the main so well informed on their rugby that there is no escape. He told the story of wanting to send some post cards home from some little one horse town out in the country and went into the post office to buy some stamps. The little old grandma behind the counter said "You're Will Carling aren't you? Gonna be a tough day at the office for you guys on Saturday. You've got some good tight forwards but your loosies are too slow and there's no balance to your back row. That's where you're going to lose the game".
 
Spot on too!

taniwharugby

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2000'>Winning Team & Margin (10pt) New Zealand 11-20 $3.00 New Zealand 21-30 $3.50 New Zealand 1-10 $3.75 more</a> 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2001'>Winning Team & Margin (7pt) New Zealand by 15-21 $3.50 New Zealand by 22-28 $4.00 New Zealand by 8-14 $4.00 more</a> 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2002'>Winning Team & Margin (Exact) NEWZ by 29+ $4.00 NEWZ by 12 $18.00 NEWZ by 13 $18.00 more</a>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2100'>Treble NZ/Aus/SA $1.82 </a>
 
Some decent odd there.....

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585609" data-time="1465354192">
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: 
Makes it sound like playing a tour of Wed > Sat > Wed > Sat (TEST) was something strange ...... 

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I think the difference is when touring NZ or SA now & France back in the 80's was that midweek wasn't a chance for your dirt-trackers, it was a game you needed a few decent guys to play in or you'd get stuffed by 30 points by a province. So it was a staggeringly tough balance. Add to this the huge gulf in class from starting 15 to dirt trackers, meant it felt like a sequence of impending disasters rather than a tour. Like when Sydney beat the ABs in 92. Only every week, every tour.
 
Re how lightly we can take Wales. Be really interesting to see a stat showing games played by the top players (NZ compared to WA) since the World Cup. Cause I'm guessing the Welsh have played a metric shit-ton of continuous rugby. Read somewhere that Billy Vunaploa had worked out by the time he gets home post Aussie tour it'll be 360 days since he reported for the World Cup.

Dan54

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585637" data-time="1465364434">
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I don't think anyone who didn't live through it can appreciate the profound shock that 71 tour was to the rugby public. Sure we'd lost to the Boks the previous year but that was in SA and they cheated :yes:
 
We simply weren't expecting in our worst nightmares anything other than a AB walkover. Certainly not the humiliation that unfolded. AB teams weren't supposed to be slow, less skilled, less aggressive, tactically naÃ¯ve and years behind in planning and execution. Yet it happened. In large due to that 69 Welsh side. Bastards ;)
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Yep Dog, and I remember a few of us laughing when they lost to Queensland on way to NZ, and saying well if they lose to Aussie team thay would be lucky to beat Horowhenua!!!
 
Anyway,I fly ovet to Ausckland tomorrow to follow the tour!! Really starting to get built up for it!!

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="585662" data-time="1465376292">
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Read somewhere that Billy Vunaploa had worked out by the time he gets home post Aussie tour it'll be 360 days since he reported for the World Cup. 
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What am I missing here? I have no idea what this means.

MiketheSnow

Anyone who says/thinks that
 
a] NZ are a MUCH weakened team because of retirement
b] NZ will be ripe for the picking because it's their first test of the season
c] Wales have a great opportunity to mug the ABs in the 1st Test
 
have either
 
1] not been watching Super Rugby - most Welsh supporters and more worringly quite a few NH journos
2] didn't watch Wales in the 6N, the Welsh players in the Pro 12, and Wales' warm up match against England - worst watch in a decade for me
3] have newspapers to sell

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="585667" data-time="1465377854">
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What am I missing here? I have no idea what this means.
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5 day off season this past year?

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MiketheSnow" data-cid="585670" data-time="1465378270">
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5 day off season this past year?
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Ahhh righto, cheers!

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="585614" data-time="1465355399">
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Celtic Passion!
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Translation: plenty of yellow cards, swearing at the ref in some hairy dwarven dialect and drunken singing in the sheds after the game.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="585667" data-time="1465377854">
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What am I missing here? I have no idea what this means.
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Yeah, as Mike says, he basically had xmas off & thats it.
 
Go into WC camp, train, play WC, go into Saracens camp, play 15 games, go into 6N camp, plays 5 tests, go back to Sarries, play 15 more games. Go to pre tour camp, go on tour, play 3 tests, go home.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585609" data-time="1465354192">
The dodgy journo Galagher has a feature on Wales tours/tests in NZ: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/brendan-gallagher/26032/brendan-gallagher-looks-at-how-wales-have-never-yet-come-to-terms-with-touring-in-new-zealand/">http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/brendan-gallagher/26032/brendan-gallagher-looks-at-how-wales-have-never-yet-come-to-terms-with-touring-in-new-zealand/</a> 
I found part of the article quite interesting, as 1969 is well before my time, and that was a great NZ team and welsh team about to become great. So it was a lot of new info in there for me. 
However, I remember the 1988 tour extremely well. and some of the stuff Galagher writes about that tour is just plain stretching normailty to try and make it sound like the extreme, plus a few outrigh untruths, again. So now I doubt if what he has written about 1969 resembes the truth. 
About 1988: 
Well this is wrong. Waikato were only 1 year up from Division 2, wellington were actiually the second best team from the previous NPC (but about to implode that year), Otago were on the way up, and probably were the second best provincial team in NZ in 1988. But the strongest team in NZ from 1987 to 1993 was Auckland, second stongest was Auckand B, third strongest was Ponsonby :-), then Auckland Marist .... etc. Waikato beating Wales was such a shock (at the time, but only for about 3 days until we realised how abysmal they were still in the next match). 
Also about 1988: 
Makes it sound like playing a tour of Wed > Sat > Wed > Sat (TEST) was something strange ...... 
Anyway. Interesting article to get a different view, and will be interesting for those who don't remembr the tours. But is full of excuse making, with the caveat of being by a whining journalist whol likes to make stuff up, so keep an open mind. 
Will be interested in reading any feedback from those old enough to remember 1969.</blockquote>
Sounds somewhat overblown. But I'm not going to justify anything Gallagher has written by clicking on it. 
He has rather exaggerated the point about the strength of the teams but he kind of has a point about the fact that they were all 1st Division teams. 
Back in the day mid-week games were generally 2nd and 3rd Div teams (and if you were touring Straya you'd tend to play Victoria or NSW Country or Qld Country in the outback). I suppose that's where the term dirt trackers came from, as they'd play on dirt tracks. 
I recall the 83 Lions were ambushed a bit by having to play Auckland and Canterbury mid week. Caused a bit of a stir.

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="585694" data-time="1465387481">
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Sounds somewhat overblown. But I'm not going to justify anything Gallagher has written by clicking on it. 
He has rather exaggerated the point about the strength of the teams but he kind of has a point about the fact that they were all 1st Division teams. 
Back in the day mid-week games were generally 2nd and 3rd Div teams (and if you were touring Straya you'd tend to play Victoria or NSW Country or Qld Country in the outback). I suppose that's where the term dirt trackers came from, as they'd play on dirt tracks. I recall the 83 Lions were ambushed a bit by having to play Auckland and Canterbury mid week. Caused a bit of a stir.
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I think that is more about the changing nature of tours. Previously a tour to NZ or SA would have been a very long affair with plenty of time to take in Saturday games against the stronger provinces and then the tests interwoven with that. 1983 tour to NZ was (from memory) somewhat foreshortened from previous tours and it was a case of having to try and fit a quart into a pint pot. And now we have arrived at where we are now, where it is all wham, bang, thank you ma'am and before you know it the tour is over.

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="585705" data-time="1465398460">I think that is more about the changing nature of tours. Previously a tour to NZ or SA would have been a very long affair with plenty of time to take in Saturday games against the stronger provinces and then the tests interwoven with that. 1983 tour to NZ was (from memory) somewhat foreshortened from previous tours and it was a case of having to try and fit a quart into a pint pot. And now we have arrived at where we are now, where it is all wham, bang, thank you ma'am and before you know it the tour is over.</blockquote> Agreed. I'd go further and say that 'tour' is a misnomer at this stage.

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="585707" data-time="1465403600">
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Agreed. I'd go further and say that 'tour' is a misnomer at this stage.
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This is a 3-match Test tour with a homecoming match for Gats ;)

Frye

1. Joe Moody (11) 2. Dane Coles (36) 3. Owen Franks (78) 4. Luke Romano (22) 5. Brodie Retallick (47) 6. Jerome Kaino (67) 7. Sam Cane (31) 8. Kieran Read â€“ captain (84) 9. Aaron Smith (47) 10. Aaron Cruden (37) 11. Julian Savea (41) 12. Ryan Crotty (15) 13. Malakai Fekitoa (13) 14. Waisake Naholo (3) 15. Ben Smith (48) Reserves 16. Nathan Harris (2) 17. Wyatt Crockett (45) 18. Charlie Faumuina (33) 19. Patrick Tuipulotu (7) 20. Ardie Savea 21. TJ Perenara (17) 22. Beauden Barrett (36) 23. Seta Tamanivalu

Frye

Harris the only real surprise.
 
I guess depth at hooker certainly needs to be developed. Might be an indication that Taylor might start one of the tests.

Bones

Yeah bit odd to my thinking. Taylor has been going great, they obviously see something in Harris they want to bring in. Bloody solid for a depleted team...

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales