All Blacks vs Wales
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="582487" data-time="1464148508">
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<p>Chris, I have adjusted yours for my guess of what I think they will go with</p>
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<p>Owen Franks<br>
Charlie Faumuina<br><strike>Jeff Toomaga-Allen</strike><br><br>
Dane Coles<br>
Codie Taylor<br>
Nathan Harris<br><br>
Joe Moody<br>
Wyatt Crockett<br><strike>Kane Hames</strike><br><br>
Sam Whitelock<br>
Brodie Retallick<br>
Patrick Tuipolotu<br>
Luke Romano</p>
<p>Dominic Bird<br><br>
Jerome Kaino<br>
Stephen Luatua<br><strike>Jordan Taufua</strike></p>
<p>Matt Todd</p>
<p>Luke Whitelock<br>
Sam Cane<br>
Ardie Savea<br>
Kieran Read<br><br>
Aaron Smith<br>
Brad Weber<br>
TJ Perenara<br><br>
Aaron Cruden<br>
Lima Sopoaga<br>
Beauden Barrett<br><br>
Ryan Crotty<br>
Malakai Fekitoa<br>
Charlie Ngatai<br><br>
Julian Savea<br>
Waisake Naholo<br>
Ben Smith</p>
<p>Damian McKenzie<br><strike>Israel Dagg</strike></p>
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<p>No chance that they are only taking 4 props.</p>
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<p>I definitely think Moala is valuable as well. No one else in the squad can play midfield and wing.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582515" data-time="1464151401">
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<p>Moala's strengths are his versatility and athleticism? But what about his composure and temperament? I'm not entirely sold on him based on what I've seen on the Blues backline this year. <em><strong>Does he have the goods to develop into a world class player? I'd love him to be the new Ma'a Nonu but he doesn't seem to have Nonu's passing skills, balance or work rate....</strong></em></p>
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<p>Neither did Nonu when he was first picked for NZ. If ever there was a player that dramatically changed my perception of their skills and worth it was Nonu.</p> -
<p>It's apparently very easy for people to forget what Nonu was like 2003-2008. He certainly was not the best 12 i have ever seen, like he was over the past few years (that's right, I'm calling it, he was better than Horan by the end). </p>
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<p>Suspect hands, suspect temperament, suspect workrate, suspect vision, suspect passing. In addition to the best 12 i have seen, he may also be the player who most improved/evolved over his career i ever saw. 2003 Nonu and 2015 Nonu are worlds apart. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582565" data-time="1464157066">
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<p>It's apparently very easy for people to forget what Nonu was like 2003-2008. He certainly was not the best 12 i have ever seen, like he was over the past few years (that's right, I'm calling it, he was better than Horan by the end). </p>
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<p><strong>Suspect hands, suspect temperament, suspect workrate, suspect vision, suspect passing.</strong> In addition to the best 12 i have seen, he may also be the player who most improved/evolved over his career i ever saw. 2003 Nonu and 2015 Nonu are worlds apart. </p>
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<p>So you're saying he's Kata like? ;)</p>
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<p>The 2003 version of Nonu busted defences apart, but I think he dropped off the boil a bit not long after (maybe 2nd year blues?), but agree 100% that he's probably the player who improved the most over his career.</p>
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<p>Not sure I agree he's better than Horan ... but maybe I have Stockholm Syndrome being a Sydney-ite now.</p> -
<p>Both Canes props have improved greatly this year as far as scrum is concerned. I had big doubts about JTA's qualities as a scrummager but he has done surprisingly well during the last four rounds. As NZ THP stocks are thin, maybe he could get a call, at least in a wider squad for training. Goodes is the third best LHP in NZ. He could get a call as well.</p>
<p>I don't see Mitch Graham nor Hohneck in the mix while Ofa T chances have diminished dramatically since the game vs the Crusaders.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="582598" data-time="1464160185">
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<p>Is everyone too scared to say it? We need a 6/8 that covers lock? Welcome back lucky Luke.</p>
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<p>I had noticed that in Crucial's team, along with Chris Bird, but my reply asking him if he was drunk didn't go through due to dodgy internet.</p>
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<p>Surely not, It would all be based off the one game vs the Crusaders. I would have all of Dixon, Thompson, Luatua, Squire, Fifita and Seu before him for that role. I would probably even pick Jimmy Tupou or Shields before Whitelock.</p>
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<p>Don't see any reason to pick Dom Bird either. Has never shown anything above ITM cup level IMO. Would hope Scott Barrett and Fatialofa would get a shot before him because they have actually shown some form.</p> -
Horan was better for longer, but Nonu was fucking unreal for the last 4 years
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The team I listed was a guess at who I think will be picked not who I would pick based on form past and present <br>
These selectors have been pretty good at identifying players and I think will give ones like Harris, Tuipolotu and Whitelock another go. <br>
As for props, Laulala will still be in their sights for next year so will cast the net out a bit this year without necessarily locking in a newbie. -
<p>Watched The Breakdown. Goldie picked Tu'ungafasi as someone who can play both sides - a reasonable concept in my view - provided he doesn't actually have to play. :)</p>
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<p>Dixon and Taufua as the blindside forwards (Luatua not mentioned). Some mention that Kaino may not be fit and he'd penciled in Luke Whitelock as replacement!</p>
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<p>Tamanivalu as 4th midfielder - fair enough.</p>
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<p>I think he had McKenzie and not Dagg.</p>
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<p>I think he might have had Scott Barrett and not Romano.</p>
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<p>Various others mentioned in the discussions, similar to here.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="582255" data-time="1464086710">
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<p>No love for Roberts or Davies ? best midfield partnership in the game surely......</p>
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<p>There is a fair bit more to both their games that you will see under Gatlandball.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="582664" data-time="1464171306">
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<p>Watched The Breakdown. Goldie picked Tu'ungafasi as someone who can play both sides - a reasonable concept in my view - provided he doesn't actually have to play. :)</p>
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<p>Dixon and Taufua as the blindside forwards (Luatua not mentioned). Some mention that Kaino may not be fit and he'd penciled in Luke Whitelock as replacement!</p>
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<p>Tamanivalu as 4th midfielder - fair enough.</p>
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<p>I think he had McKenzie and not Dagg.</p>
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<p>I think he might have had Scott Barrett and not Romano.</p>
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<p>Various others mentioned in the discussions, similar to here.</p>
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<p>Tu'ungafasi would be good to have in the squad as a sixth prop. He is already a great prop aside from the fact he can't scrummage (which makes him a shit prop). Get his scrumming up to speed and he will be very handy to have.</p>
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<p>Tamanivalu is a bit too raw for me but has been impressive. I reckon he will make the squad at some point.</p> -
Further to chris: Watching the breakdown too. John kirwan has surfaced as a pundit. He specifically mentioned he had a raging hard-on for liam squire. <br><br>
Goldie picked a squad on behalf of the panel I.e. picked who he wanted. Had tamanivalu and also picked Barrett over Romano. The panel seemed keen on picking two halfbacks and leaving TJP on the training paddock. -
<p>Surely Goodes is the 6th best prop in NZ. He has not only been killing it this year for the Canes but he was also dominant last year aswell. I suppose being confined to loose-head doesn't work in his favour due to Moody and Crockett being the incumbents but he shits all over Tu'ungafasi in terms of work rate and scrummaging. </p>
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<p>To be quite honest the matches I've seen Tu'ungafasi play over the last few years he has been pretty average, definitely not upto All Black standards. I remember one of his team mates even yelled at him because he was busy sea-gulling outwide. </p> -
<p>Even mentioning Luke Whitelock makes me cringe. He plays one good game against the Highlanders and all of a sudden he warrants selection. Please!! Guys like Dixon, Squire, Blade Thomson and Steven Luatua are consisitantly better than him. I am quietly happy the Highlanders have Whitelock starting ahead of Squire this week because the back of the scrum has rapidly gone from a point of strength to a point of weakness IMO.</p>
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<p>I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that <span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Tu'ungafasi might be an option given his relative lack of ability at scrum time. He might look like Tarzan but he scrums like Jane. He may develop into a world class prop and become a long term All Black, but he's nowhere near the required standard at this stage. In saying that, I can't see any reason why he couldn't be considered as a project player, just to bring him into the camp, introduce him to the AB environment and culture and get to know him a little bit better.</span></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">As for Luke Whitelock, whilst I think he's behind a few players at both blindside flanker and no.8, the fact he can play both positions coupled with his rapid improvement curve and physical traits mean that he is in with a shot for a wider squad place.</span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="582678" data-time="1464172512">
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<p>Tu'ungafasi can't even start consistently for the blues. Is he really AB standard? I realise he has been in training camps etc.<br><br>
Am i the only one who thinks luke whitelock should be nowhere near an AB jersey?</p>
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<p>I haven't seen anything from Ofa that makes me think he is close to AB standard. The big problem is that pickings at THP are extremely thin after Owen Franks and Faumuina. I'm not sure who else can be seriously considered other than Toomaga-Allen or Ofa?</p>
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<p>Pretty sure none of Alaalatoa,Yamashita, Geldenhuys or Halanukonuka are available to the ABs. I think Hohneck is off overseas?</p>
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<p>NZRU might have to look at clamping down on using AB ineligible THPs in Super rugby.</p>
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<p>You're not alone on Lucky Luke. I didn't even want him at the Crusaders!</p>
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<p>He has, admittedly played a couple of good games in recent times.</p>
