All Blacks 2024
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
No one could have, because there are no other lump 12s in NZ. But that wasn't thr point any one made
And I don't think we deviated from the plan, thr plan went to shit in the face of cards and insane saffer tackling.
And we still nearly won.
If Jordie or Mo'unga could kick their goals, we'd be lauding all of them as heros now. One goddamn point.
On 12 for next year, Tupaea isn't big, but can carry. It will be interesting to see how he goes.
Pity he has suspect defence.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I defy anyone to name another player in NZ who could have done a better job than JB at 12. Our failure to succeed was as much about the pattern we chose to play than anything. We departed from the game plan from the Ireland victory, for the second RWC in a row, and consequently came unstuck. IMHO he is a core backline piece, the question Razor will ask is who will play beside him
With Jason Holland selecting the MF,Billy Procter probably comes in to contention at 13.
Ioane has played well over the last year, but he doesn't distribute the ball to his outsides as a typical 13 should. Proctor had a very good SR season last year, he has a chance to pair up with JB again
This is complete fucking bullshit
Fucking Hurricanes fans
I thought he played very well, and he was excellent at running off JB. I'm just saying he could set his outsides up more
Go loom who threw the last pass in a bunch of world cup tries
It wasn't the overrated 12
Clearly you forget what we were like when we had Havili at 12.... JB was the one who got us moving forward up the guts from midfield
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I defy anyone to name another player in NZ who could have done a better job than JB at 12. Our failure to succeed was as much about the pattern we chose to play than anything. We departed from the game plan from the Ireland victory, for the second RWC in a row, and consequently came unstuck. IMHO he is a core backline piece, the question Razor will ask is who will play beside him
With Jason Holland selecting the MF,Billy Procter probably comes in to contention at 13.
Ioane has played well over the last year, but he doesn't distribute the ball to his outsides as a typical 13 should. Proctor had a very good SR season last year, he has a chance to pair up with JB again
This is complete fucking bullshit
Fucking Hurricanes fans
I thought he played very well, and he was excellent at running off JB. I'm just saying he could set his outsides up more
Go loom who threw the last pass in a bunch of world cup tries
It wasn't the overrated 12
Clearly you forget what we were like when we had Havili at 12.... JB was the one who got us moving forward up the guts from midfield
Being better than David Havili is not a flex
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Is that for the squad or the team?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Is that for the squad or the team?
Both
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
No one could have, because there are no other lump 12s in NZ. But that wasn't thr point any one made
And I don't think we deviated from the plan, thr plan went to shit in the face of cards and insane saffer tackling.
And we still nearly won.
If Jordie or Mo'unga could kick their goals, we'd be lauding all of them as heros now. One goddamn point.
On 12 for next year, Tupaea isn't big, but can carry. It will be interesting to see how he goes.
Pity he has suspect defence.
I agree TBH. It's a big weakness.
However, Jordie's 5 made, 2 missed, 3 turnovers in the final doesn't exactly shout safe as houses either.
I do think that Jordie did a great job making a fuckload of tackles in the semi and quarter, but he also only ran at about 80% success. He missed plenty against the Argies and a few against the Irish.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Clearly you forget what we were like when we had Havili at 12.... JB was the one who got us moving forward up the guts from midfield
I think the argument isn't about whether JB is better than DH, but if he's the long term answer. JB did OK (far from a criticism), plugged a gap well and maybe he'll develop with Reiko, but he's pretty limited at 12 thus far.
Still see him in the starting XV this year but I'd expect Robertson, Holland, Smith (or whoever is in overall charge of selection) to be developing options pretty quickly. JB's value off the bench is huge so hope he'll be around for a while.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
No one could have, because there are no other lump 12s in NZ. But that wasn't thr point any one made
And I don't think we deviated from the plan, thr plan went to shit in the face of cards and insane saffer tackling.
And we still nearly won.
If Jordie or Mo'unga could kick their goals, we'd be lauding all of them as heros now. One goddamn point.
On 12 for next year, Tupaea isn't big, but can carry. It will be interesting to see how he goes.
Pity he has suspect defence.
I agree TBH. It's a big weakness.
However, Jordie's 5 made, 2 missed, 3 turnovers in the final doesn't exactly shout safe as houses either.
I do think that Jordie did a great job making a fuckload of tackles in the semi and quarter, but he also only ran at about 80% success. He missed plenty against the Argies and a few against the Irish.
Yep no argument there Jordie was not alway
Perfect. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting it maybe a masterstroke or as you say a disaster.
I suppose if makes all the coaching staff responsible for certain areas and gets them to buy in to the team even more. -
So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting it maybe a masterstroke or as you say a disaster.
Have zero problem with 5 coaches suggesting players and input from an éminence grise, but Roberson has to take any final decisions
I suppose if makes all the coaching staff responsible for certain areas and gets them to buy in to the team even more.
If Robertson has to do that to get his coaches to buy into his team, then we are really up shit creek in a barbed-wire canoe without a paddle....
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I'm convinced the combination is as important as the players. Without looking it up, I'd guess RI/JB have spent as much time together as any other 12/13 combination in the last few years.
I'd imagine Robertson will stick with JB/RI for this year but hope he tries some new combinations off the bench and against the lesser teams in the latter part.
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@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
