RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
-
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy. -
@W32 I disagree, it is about focusing on yourselves, making sure you get your house in order, if you focus on the things you cant control (the opposition) then you have already lost.
Once they knew the opposition, then that changes things slightly, but you still need to make sure you are in the right place.
-
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
You're reading far too much into that reply. If Foster said, England, the media would have asked why. The same if his answer was SA. Maybe the wording could have been better (e.g., we have no preference) but I saw it as not giving the media any fuel.
-
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.Not sure he really believed that. He's been known to talk shit and non-speak
-
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 I disagree, it is about focusing on yourselves, making sure you get your house in order, if you focus on the things you cant control (the opposition) then you have already lost.
Once they knew the opposition, then that changes things slightly, but you still need to make sure you are in the right place.
i get what youre saying but i kind of feel not looking at what the rest of the world is doing is a huge part of where fozzie has failed, he's just plugged away at whatever he wanted to do...and not addressed things like everyone else developing rush defence...then we get caught out trying to play a style that is relatively easily nullified
-
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I'm laughing at all the ref saltiness, the ref wasn't perfect. We could've won with a better coach, simple as. Foster called for the corner when it should've been 3, and Foster waited too long to put DMac on (and when he did replaced the wrong player). In addition, someone like Roigard who could make an impact would've been good too. Bench players are so important, having safe ginger was stupid.
The players made it worse by not being calm enough and turning over more ball than they ever have before - not all of it under pressure - lots of 50-50 and just stone-cold shitty drops. Our best player had to play for 3 with Frizzle deciding to revert to type (1 fucking tackle!), and Cane being a dumb ass and going in high (again). I can give the player's slack as they are on the field and the mental pressure must be huge, having been in those sorts of situations clarity is hard. It's a lot easier for coaches/generals sitting back in the COAC with the screens, tho.
Yes, there were calls against us, but we could've won that with slightly more intelligence and leadership.
SA might have been crap in the second half but their game plan allows for that, it is simple and effective. But they can be beaten if you have the right mental fortitude on the pitch and in the box - we didn't.100%. It's a typical Foster move to depart from a winning plan, just look at the pool game vs the French. Play as we did against Ireland and the ref is taken out of the equation as we would have led in the game and made the saffas chase us
Yeah, see the minor issue..?
-
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I remember around 11 I used to lurk around on a few rugby forums , and there were plenty from other countries cheering for France , and complaining about the ref afterwards and my answer was , they had their opportunities to win and didn’t take them.
they kept 15 on 15. Refs swallow whistles in finals - I was thinking back to why we didn't go for a dropgoal; arguably that wins us the game. Tries were hard to come by, and always will be.
I'd say you need fast ball to set up for a drop goal, or you kicked has to be miles back to negate the possible charge down. It's difficult to get fast ball when you've been playing for an age a man down.
-
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.I think you are reading far too much into that. He definitely would have preferred to play England as they are the weaker team but there's no way he could say that in public. What he said was the standard answer that every coach gives.
-
@Kiwiwomble I think in the context of the RWC, I dont see an issue, but bigger picture, absolutely we need to be all over other playing styles and tactics (I mean it only took us 6 years to find a way to look slightly more comfortable against a rush defence) as a way to continue to evolve and innovate
-
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
Yes, it was, and if they can go back to correct it, why can't they go back and correct Ardie stealing the ball?
-
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
And if you land on them accidentally, you go for ten.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If your game plan is relying on match officials to get everything correct you’re in trouble.
IMO the biggest errors were kicking to the corner when we should have kicked for sticks…then kicking for the sticks from far out when we should have kicked to the corner. And waiting too long to bring on DMac.
They were pretty big eff ups for sure. Bringing on DMac so late was pretty inexplicable. Makes the loss hurt even more..
But fark me Kolisi being allowed to come back on while Cane gets red was seriously on the nose. I don't think we've heard the last of that.
You could hear SK calling for head highs at almost every tackle.
-
In addition to discipline our other achilles heel of kicking game came back to bite us.
In the first half the Boks kicking game absolutely schooled ours.
Boks were putting up true contestables whereas as our kicks drifted a little too far - our players weren't able to contest in the air. Boks were also pinning us back with kicks in behind and we couldn't clear very effectively.
Beauden's opening kickoff was poor (it was neither short and contestable or hanging and deep allowing us pin them back) and then i'm reminded of Beauden in space around halfway in the first half and instead or passing to Jordan outside him he kicked it dead in goal.
ABs kicking improved in the second half but the poor kicking in the first half (and conversely Boks excellent kicking in the first half) hugely contributed to us playing catch-up.
-
@KiwiMurph yeah execution, handling and choosing when to kick, we got so many of the little moments wrong IMO, I wouldnt say caved under pressure, but they certainly struggled (obviously 60 mins with 1 less player will have played its part here too) to retain thier composure and clarity of decision making.
The final 10 or 15 when they were taking pot shots at goal, and we kept kicking it back to them for another go, rather than kicking to touch, to put thier struggling lineout under pressure.
-
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
-
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
And you can look up the word hypocrisy. How's that?
-
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph yeah execution, handling and choosing when to kick, we got so many of the little moments wrong IMO, I wouldnt say caved under pressure, but they certainly struggled (obviously 60 mins with 1 less player will have played its part here too) to retain thier composure and clarity of decision making.
The final 10 or 15 when they were taking pot shots at goal, and we kept kicking it back to them for another go, rather than kicking to touch, to put thier struggling lineout under pressure.
The Boks were all over place at end, too, to be fair. Habana had his head in his hands!
-
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
In addition to discipline our other achilles heel of kicking game came back to bite us.
I remember at least one occasion where Beauden had the opportunity for a 50/22 but didn't pull the trigger. Field position and the ball if that worked.
