RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
Yes, it was, and if they can go back to correct it, why can't they go back and correct Ardie stealing the ball?
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
And if you land on them accidentally, you go for ten.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If your game plan is relying on match officials to get everything correct you’re in trouble.
IMO the biggest errors were kicking to the corner when we should have kicked for sticks…then kicking for the sticks from far out when we should have kicked to the corner. And waiting too long to bring on DMac.
They were pretty big eff ups for sure. Bringing on DMac so late was pretty inexplicable. Makes the loss hurt even more..
But fark me Kolisi being allowed to come back on while Cane gets red was seriously on the nose. I don't think we've heard the last of that.
You could hear SK calling for head highs at almost every tackle.
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In addition to discipline our other achilles heel of kicking game came back to bite us.
In the first half the Boks kicking game absolutely schooled ours.
Boks were putting up true contestables whereas as our kicks drifted a little too far - our players weren't able to contest in the air. Boks were also pinning us back with kicks in behind and we couldn't clear very effectively.
Beauden's opening kickoff was poor (it was neither short and contestable or hanging and deep allowing us pin them back) and then i'm reminded of Beauden in space around halfway in the first half and instead or passing to Jordan outside him he kicked it dead in goal.
ABs kicking improved in the second half but the poor kicking in the first half (and conversely Boks excellent kicking in the first half) hugely contributed to us playing catch-up.
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@KiwiMurph yeah execution, handling and choosing when to kick, we got so many of the little moments wrong IMO, I wouldnt say caved under pressure, but they certainly struggled (obviously 60 mins with 1 less player will have played its part here too) to retain thier composure and clarity of decision making.
The final 10 or 15 when they were taking pot shots at goal, and we kept kicking it back to them for another go, rather than kicking to touch, to put thier struggling lineout under pressure.
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
And you can look up the word hypocrisy. How's that?
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph yeah execution, handling and choosing when to kick, we got so many of the little moments wrong IMO, I wouldnt say caved under pressure, but they certainly struggled (obviously 60 mins with 1 less player will have played its part here too) to retain thier composure and clarity of decision making.
The final 10 or 15 when they were taking pot shots at goal, and we kept kicking it back to them for another go, rather than kicking to touch, to put thier struggling lineout under pressure.
The Boks were all over place at end, too, to be fair. Habana had his head in his hands!
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
In addition to discipline our other achilles heel of kicking game came back to bite us.
I remember at least one occasion where Beauden had the opportunity for a 50/22 but didn't pull the trigger. Field position and the ball if that worked.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
And you can look up the word hypocrisy. How's that?
Step away, smell the air outside!
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it? 😂
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
Further to this, after the Ireland win Foster was asked who he would rather have in the final, England or SA. He answered " I don't care".
Right there I thought that we (SA) were going to win....the way he said it suggested to me that he was a little too arrogant about it. That is the old AB mentality, when other teams weren't close. Foster is lazy.This is what is known as diplomacy. You could learn some.
Tell you what, I'll work on my "diplomacy" if you work on your humility...how's that?
And you can look up the word hypocrisy. How's that?
hmmmmm. Can you point out where I've been a hypocrite? I will admit to trying to "bring the other side" a few times...or trying to point out double standards a few times. Perhaps this went over your head?
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This post is deleted!
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@KiwiMurph the Boks chase and compete on kicks better than we do. Though there were some cases where they were leaping into the space and contacting our defenders in the air. One case where Richie landed on top of Kolbe who was then injured was a clear penalty to us not given.
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Beauden's opening kickoff was poor (it was neither short and contestable or hanging and deep allowing us pin them back) and then i'm reminded of Beauden in space around halfway in the first half and instead or passing to Jordan outside him he kicked it dead in goal.
This annoyed me a lot. Kickoff that is too deep and flat to contest and lands just over the 22 so it can be kicked straight out over half-way.
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@kev said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph the Boks chase and compete on kicks better than we do. Though there were some cases where they were leaping into the space and contacting our defenders in the air. One case where Richie landed on top of Kolbe who was then injured was a clear penalty to us not given.
it's their tactic, and it's fucking smart given the make up of their team.
Little pacey wingers running flat out in to the contest and just chucking themselves at it. If the oppoisiotn make a tough catch, no problem. But more likely one of you fumbles in the contest. And that's either you winning the ball, or a scrum. They definitely want a scrum. It's organised chaos
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@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
From a penalty count perspective the ABs had an excellent game. The Boks gave away twice as many penalties.
I think we could’ve dealt with the two YCs especially with the Boks getting two of their own, but IMO it was the upgrade to the RC that really took its toll on us.
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@KiwiPie said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Beauden's opening kickoff was poor (it was neither short and contestable or hanging and deep allowing us pin them back) and then i'm reminded of Beauden in space around halfway in the first half and instead or passing to Jordan outside him he kicked it dead in goal.
This annoyed me a lot. Kickoff that is too deep and flat to contest and lands just over the 22 so it can be kicked straight out over half-way.
And it sucks because there was a period back around 2017-18 that Beaudie used to kick pinpoint restarts and Read would time his run perfectly to knock it back to our side.
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The person doing that in the last couple of years was Clarke. When he went out of the xv nobody replaced that role
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Yup (not the Cane stuff, but the big game management - lack off)
The All Blacks still don't understand World Cups despite what Carter taught them
The second half was all New Zealand which is why in the end they have no excuses to rely on. Once the dam broke and the All Blacks' found a try through Beauden Barrett, the game was there for the taking for the All Blacks.
