RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@Windows97 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There's winning it the hard way, then there'swinningitlike the 2023 Springboks.FIFY
Winning is winning...while we'd all love to play attractive running rugby and win, reality is this is rarely the result.
As many alluded to, the best rugby of this RWC was in some of the pool matches and then peaked in the 1/4 finals.
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Another thing - since when is the RWC final expected to be a showpiece of our game?
In my lifetime:
95 - Dour penalty fest
99 - Fairly dour penalty fest
03 - Great Lote Tuqiri try, then a dour penalty fest
07 - Dour penalty fest
11 - Dour penalty fest
15 - Actually great game, easily the best final and closer than scoreline suggested
19 - Not that dour but also not that close
23 - Pretty dour penalty festImportant to note that one man's 'dour penalty fest' is another man's grinding physical contest so take it all with a grain of salt if you must.
But if your expectation was the final would be a classic showpiece, well I think it's a bit on you if you are disappointed.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Windows97 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There's winning it the hard way, then there'swinningitlike the 2023 Springboks.FIFY
Winning is winning...while we'd all love to play attractive running rugby and win, reality is this is rarely the result.
As many alluded to, the best rugby of this RWC was in some of the pool matches and then peaked in the 1/4 finals.
I meant it more as a compliment to their starch and ability to not panic under pressure.
And aside from all the shoulda, coulda, woulda talk (which would be equal for all 3 games) SA found a way to win in all of them.
I admire them for it, albeit from a state of dejection.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel I am ok with reviewing scoring phases as the game has stopped and you get the decision right. I like that cause it gives the ref the get of jail card free. If they are clear on the number of phases. To balance that against penalties etc then giving captains one or 2 appeals per game would allow for evenness.
But having the TMO interfere with live rugby to go back for cards is the big problem. If we started with the mindset that they are referrals anyway and can be cited after the match then they just go away.
The NRL have done this to great success.
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@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
The problem is that so much of the rugby below it is dire as well. The RWC is just a reflection of that.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
It's not just the officiating though. There's too much at stake and teams resort to defensive rugby. There's a reason that only rarely do teams pass 16 points.
And I reject the notion it was a whistle-fest. The last 30 minutes was gripping and Barnes barely blew his whistle at all. No scrum penalties, no 50/50 ruck penalties.
So in an ideal world I'd love it to be razzle dazzle rugby, but history tells us that it's almost never the case.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I hate myself.
And he's right about the two phases.
Easily googlable. I sssume the 2022 version on the WR website is correct.
You'd think the best TMO in the world would know his job.
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@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
It's the Kumar Dharmasena moment of this world cup.
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@barbarian I didn't say it did, I was talking generally, not specific to yesterday.
I think we are not too far apart in thinking, we want it, but will rarely be, nothing wrong with wanting it to be great
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
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@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
i dont think anyone is arguing that, were just talking about the use of TMO and things like this seems quite clearly stated...and yet not followed
personally i think the knock on was a direct result of the penalty action and so should be considered part of that and so play on under advantage...but thats not the rules
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
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I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop in particular) who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
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@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
you meant to answer my post?
A I think there is a discipline/card or at least playing to the ref problem with this side for awhile but on the other hand
B I'm not very happy with the TMO or the amount of consistency in the cards/penalties of the RWC final (i.e. I think I agree with you) -
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
we've had AB judoka before...oh and at least one wrestler..
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I know this has been brought up before but one thing is those players (one SA prop) in particular who get down so ridiculously low its virtually impossible to tackle them without making contact to the head. The tackler has to literally slide along the ground. Its effectively inviting a shoulder or arm to the head. How tf is that making the game safer?
Need to learn judo and hip toss them
we've had AB judoka before...oh and at least one wrestler..
Stevie McD must be able to offer some pointers
