RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@canefan Depends on how you measure it - television audiences, revenues, crowd totals, rights revenues. I’ve seen plenty of commentary putting the Rugby World Cup third behind the Summer Olympics and Football World Cup. But then you have the Tour de France, Wimbledon, Daytona etc; Put it this way, it’s significant. There’s a lot of money involved, enough you would think to ensure they’re clear, consistent, comprehensible and transparent rules, along with competent officials to administer them. As to a Commonwealth-only sport, South Africa is not a member. Neither is France or Ireland or Argentina. There’s four of the top eight.
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan Depends on how you measure it - television audiences, revenues, crowd totals, rights revenues. I’ve seen plenty of commentary putting the Rugby World Cup third behind the Summer Olympics and Football World Cup. But then you have the Tour de France, Wimbledon, Daytona etc; Put it this way, it’s significant. There’s a lot of money involved, enough you would think to ensure they’re clear, consistent, comprehensible and transparent rules, along with competent officials to administer them. As to a Commonwealth-only sport, South Africa is not a member. Neither is France and Ireland. There’s three of the top four.
I was referring to netball....
Rugby has a way to go
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@reprobate said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Cane having no mitigation reminded me of Ta'avao having no mitigation vs Porter's "absorbing" tackle - which broke Retallick's cheek-bone and decided the Irish series. A change in direction of the player with the ball which catches the tackler off guard without time to adjust down for some reason isn't seen as mitigation. Whereas Kolisi, lining up Ardie from in front and deciding to go high does have mitigation?
The way these are ruled is just totally beyond me.
Etzebeth's yellow for front on head on head in the England game. If Cane is red that is red surely? These decisions go two different ways, and decide two knockout games, and as far as I can tell they are just total fucking bullshit.
This post isn't about the result of the final, which we didn't deserve to win. It probably fits better in the 'state of the game' thread - but I hope supporters of all countries can agree we are sick to fucking death of shit card rulings ruining games and something needs to be done.This is my take. I don't think anyone is blaming the officials for us losing. But the level of outright ineptitude with respect to consistency in decisions when you have the fucking TV to replay. I've said before, I'd be happy if African Jesus wasn't penalised but if that's the case, Sam Cane was a penalty either. And as for the TMO interjecting because SF fell over, well fuck. 30 blokes fall over all the time in rugby. I expect the next test to be played to have 0 on 0 by minute 15.
So one sentence saying not blaming the officials followed by five saying just that, followed immediately by another three posts saying the same.
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@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@reprobate said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Cane having no mitigation reminded me of Ta'avao having no mitigation vs Porter's "absorbing" tackle - which broke Retallick's cheek-bone and decided the Irish series. A change in direction of the player with the ball which catches the tackler off guard without time to adjust down for some reason isn't seen as mitigation. Whereas Kolisi, lining up Ardie from in front and deciding to go high does have mitigation?
The way these are ruled is just totally beyond me.
Etzebeth's yellow for front on head on head in the England game. If Cane is red that is red surely? These decisions go two different ways, and decide two knockout games, and as far as I can tell they are just total fucking bullshit.
This post isn't about the result of the final, which we didn't deserve to win. It probably fits better in the 'state of the game' thread - but I hope supporters of all countries can agree we are sick to fucking death of shit card rulings ruining games and something needs to be done.This is my take. I don't think anyone is blaming the officials for us losing. But the level of outright ineptitude with respect to consistency in decisions when you have the fucking TV to replay. I've said before, I'd be happy if African Jesus wasn't penalised but if that's the case, Sam Cane was a penalty either. And as for the TMO interjecting because SF fell over, well fuck. 30 blokes fall over all the time in rugby. I expect the next test to be played to have 0 on 0 by minute 15.
So one sentence saying not blaming the officials followed by five saying just that, followed immediately by another three posts saying the same.
😂I don’t blame the officials until I do
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
you meant to answer my post?
A I think there is a discipline/card or at least playing to the ref problem with this side for awhile but on the other hand
B I'm not very happy with the TMO or the amount of consistency in the cards/penalties of the RWC final (i.e. I think I agree with you)Yeah, although I agree we've not been squeaky clean and hence gambling with the vagaries of the adjudicators, but I seriously feel we've not been getting the rub of the green since the Lions Test.
I feel the same way.
This is my reality. My lived experience. Who is anyone to tell me I am wrong?
Welcome to the feeling Bok supporters have had for many years
I think that in the past, the AB's have tended to be able to take the ref decisions out of the game because they were just a notch or two so much better and a call against the AB's here or there didn't really matter.
For their opposition, a few 50:50 calls against them seemed like the kiss of death.Now that there is, at least for now, less of a gap, the AB fans are feeling those 50:50 calls much more acutely. They do feel like they make the difference on the day.
That is my theory anyway....
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Is a non try knock on and an admitted wrong turnover penalty costing 3 a 50:50 call?
It is not even a gray area
How about a 3 person TMO vote. -
@booboo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Reason from Mark fucken Reason 🤯
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't blame you for the #booboo ... it is hard to keep up.
And as I posted, even if one accepted the validity of the TMO going back to the knock on caused by Etzebeth's illegal lineout interference, under law 8 its a clear cut penalty try.
Boks RWC win is up there with Lance Armstrong's Tour de Frances.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
One that went our way was Telea's pass to BB for the try. Felt it was slightly forward.
As was Jordie's just before it
Hands never went backwards
Schrödinger's referee - looks great as long as you don't open the box and discover the ref wasn't so great after all?
So Barnes and the TMO had a great game other than the two forward passes they missed live and on review in spite of the obvious search for infringements by the TMO in almost every other aspect of the game as witnessed by the line out knock on/lineout infringement spotted a few minutes prior?
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
you meant to answer my post?
A I think there is a discipline/card or at least playing to the ref problem with this side for awhile but on the other hand
B I'm not very happy with the TMO or the amount of consistency in the cards/penalties of the RWC final (i.e. I think I agree with you)Yeah, although I agree we've not been squeaky clean and hence gambling with the vagaries of the adjudicators, but I seriously feel we've not been getting the rub of the green since the Lions Test.
I feel the same way.
This is my reality. My lived experience. Who is anyone to tell me I am wrong?
Welcome to the feeling Bok supporters have had for many years
I think that in the past, the AB's have tended to be able to take the ref decisions out of the game because they were just a notch or two so much better and a call against the AB's here or there didn't really matter.
For their opposition, a few 50:50 calls against them seemed like the kiss of death.Now that there is, at least for now, less of a gap, the AB fans are feeling those 50:50 calls much more acutely. They do feel like they make the difference on the day.
That is my theory anyway....
It's bloody hard to take the ref out of the game if you are a losing player in the first 2 minutes of the game and then spending half of the game one man down.
The ABs and Saffa team are very rarely teams that will win when the other has a one man advantage for 40 minutes. Much like the woman's RWC final, Ireland v England's 6N game and a number of games involving Wales winning, an opposition player receiving a red card completely alters the competitiveness of one side.
I'm not sure if there are any current studies on the effectiveness of the current rules but the pre-2019 studies seemed to suggest that rugby's approach was significantly less effective than rugby leagues approach on a HIA/concussions per 1000 minutes of game but that may need more data - we seem to have a set of rules that ruin games and don't provide any significant improvement in player safety Concussion rates in elite rugby hit highest levels since records begant
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@Stag said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@rustycruiser I don’t say it much, but that was 14 v 16, and we still should have won. Barnes wasn’t biased, he was just bad, and I backed him as the ref when he was appointed.
Barnes is an absolute C###.
He robbed us in 2007 and just did it again.
Him and the TMO's robbed us.
Cannot stand SA and the way they play.
We made mistakes but we deserved that game and were robbed.
The game was totally fucked by the officials.
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Scotty Stephenson on TVNZ breakfast: ‘Barnes is a great coach, but World Rugby has hung him out to dry with a ridiculous TMO system that turned the game into a crime scene.’
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If that game were played without a TMO, Blacks win easily. If TMO used to ensure correct decisions (e.g. Savea penalty), Blacks win game.
But in the mess which is the current top level officiating we get an anomalous result.
How many do there have to be before this gets sorted?
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If your game plan is relying on match officials to get everything correct you’re in trouble.
IMO the biggest errors were kicking to the corner when we should have kicked for sticks…then kicking for the sticks from far out when we should have kicked to the corner. And waiting too long to bring on DMac.
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@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If your game plan is relying on match officials to get everything correct you’re in trouble.
IMO the biggest errors were kicking to the corner when we should have kicked for sticks…then kicking for the sticks from far out when we should have kicked to the corner. And waiting too long to bring on DMac.
They were pretty big eff ups for sure. Bringing on DMac so late was pretty inexplicable. Makes the loss hurt even more..
But fark me Kolisi being allowed to come back on while Cane gets red was seriously on the nose. I don't think we've heard the last of that.
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I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
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@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
