RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay
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@mariner4life I think it is a longer term issue that he got himself into this predicament in that he was pretty much fighting for his job since day 1 so was unwilling or unable to try to genuinely develop talent behind the encumbants, and at the end of 2022 we saw more than daylight between say AS and next cab...fortunate that Roigard has emerged to close that gap, but even so you could argue he was introduced slower than he needed to be, particularly with how Christie has played.
Not saying it is all his doing, but I dont think he has helped himself with some of his decisions and seemingly blind faith for some players.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@taniwharugby is that really Ian Foster's fault though?
When your understudies are Ofa and Laulala and Vai'i and Jacobson and Havili and ALB and it's super apparent that your top 23 (who, incidentally, have all played a lot of rugby together) is all you've got, i would be cotton-wooling where i can as well.
We're a couple of key injuries/red cards from a 30-point quarter final drubbing, simply because in certain positions the guys waiting to step in are a mile behind the incumbents
i think its his fault that those second string guys are going to be rusty as well as a step down in quality, i definitely cant think of too many that have grown once joining the AB's...lots of guys seem to be getting worse
So the alternative for Fozzie is to give more time to guys clearly not up to standard at the expense of the preferred starters?
This forum is growing into the "I don't care what Foster does, it's wrong" club.
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@antipodean not quite, i think a good coach would have had more or less a performing first string a long time ago so that he could keep them sharpe whilst developing the "reserves", as it is the first string has misfired so much over the last few years he's had to keep twerking that and playing people like BB he is hoping will just "come right"
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those 2nd string guys may not have improved, but it's not for lack of game time. So so many have got heaps of games.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@antipodean not quite, i think a good coach would have had more or less a performing first string a long time ago so that he could keep them sharpe whilst developing the "reserves", as it is the first string has misfired so much over the last few years he's had to keep twerking that and playing people like BB he is hoping will just "come right"
You have a limited amount of minutes on the field. So I question how people complaining that the first choice team hasn't played together enough in the leadup to the qtr final, resolve that with making fringe players competent and providing them with opportunities to make their case for selection.
I temper my expectations with the clear and obvious reality that Foster doesn't have a bunch of GOATs in his back pocket. Frizell has come good and I'm ecstatic that Roigard, Jordie, Talea etc. have cemented themselves. Very few players have made a case and that's really not on the coach IMO.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@antipodean not quite, i think a good coach would have had more or less a performing first string a long time ago so that he could keep them sharpe whilst developing the "reserves", as it is the first string has misfired so much over the last few years he's had to keep twerking that and playing people like BB he is hoping will just "come right"
You have a limited amount of minutes on the field. So I question how people complaining that the first choice team hasn't played together enough in the leadup to the qtr final, resolve that with making fringe players competent and providing them with opportunities to make their case for selection.
I temper my expectations with the clear and obvious reality that Foster doesn't have a bunch of GOATs in his back pocket. Frizell has come good and I'm ecstatic that Roigard, Jordie, Talea etc. have cemented themselves. Very few players have made a case and that's really not on the coach IMO.
too be clear if you go back through the thread, i was saying play more or less this team to give the first string a rest (avoid injury), im just commenting on the fact the second string is such a step down
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Feek confirms there is no dry powder
“We weren't up to our standards. So that's been a focus for us – to keep building on the Italian game. The key now is to keep growing the smallest parts [of our game] by those micros. The game-plan is pretty cemented, the boys can catch up pretty easily and it’s all about the little things. Getting better is always our mantra.
Mark Hinton posts on the fern, confirmed
He might have added loose forward to that, with Cane’s absence through pool play barely causing a ripple and Ethan Blackadder’s recent arrival – all 118kg of rippling muscle – has just added to the options there.
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@Bovidae said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
2015 the top team pretty much played 3 of 4 pool games. That's what we should be doing, with tweaks but not wholesale changes liked this.
I had a look at that last night and there was still quite a bit of rotation in the selection of the teams that played the three lesser teams after the opening pool game against Argentina. Your plan is really dependent on the sequence of games, and the relative strength of the others teams in your pool.
Also, two less players to have to play in 2015.
It was tweaks, a few players changed. Whereas here we have a Hodge Podge. Continuity is more important than keeping the dirties going. Simple fact is if we end up with a second choice player even if they aren't rusty our depth is poor enough that they'll be a burden. So play the top team, minutes a couple like Ardie with big minutes, and hope no one breaks.
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@Machpants said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
Feek confirms there is no dry powder
“We weren't up to our standards. So that's been a focus for us – to keep building on the Italian game. The key now is to keep growing the smallest parts [of our game] by those micros. The game-plan is pretty cemented, the boys can catch up pretty easily and it’s all about the little things. Getting better is always our mantra.
Mark Hinton posts on the fern, confirmed
He might have added loose forward to that, with Cane’s absence through pool play barely causing a ripple and Ethan Blackadder’s recent arrival – all 118kg of rippling muscle – has just added to the options there.
What a dick. Who actually writes shit like that ?
How embarassing.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@Rancid-Schnitzel problem is, Fozzie has pretty much painted himself into a corner with his support for many players, that coming into the SA game, many players were getting short of game time, he wanted that to be a statement game (which it was) and then painted further into the corner vs the French, and then the Italy game was not the contest they hoped so really in a no win situation, opening players up for injury (or more likely given our discipline, suspension)
We certainly dont need any injury to key players as thier understudies will be largely undercooked.
So then we play the B side to protect the A side so they go into a QF cold? They've played 8 tests over 12 weeks and how many of that has been the A side? Fozzie lost the ability to build 2015 like depth 2 years ago by losing a shit tonne of games. The A side by the QF won't have played more than 2 tests consecutively in more than a month.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@taniwharugby is that really Ian Foster's fault though?
When your understudies are Ofa and Laulala and Vai'i and Jacobson and Havili and ALB and it's super apparent that your top 23 (who, incidentally, have all played a lot of rugby together) is all you've got, i would be cotton-wooling where i can as well.
We're a couple of key injuries/red cards from a 30-point quarter final drubbing, simply because in certain positions the guys waiting to step in are a mile behind the incumbents
I wonder what happened previously when we rested and rotated players, you know gave them lots of time off, lots of training so they would be fresh for the QF? Oh yeah, they got knocked out in the QF.
I tend to think consistent game time is worth the risk of injury, I'm not saying they play 80 minutes but having the same 15 starting or very close would be more beneficial than chopping and changing. During the TRC we had consistency and played well. We then changed for OZ and struggled, got pumped by SA and France.
To think our top 23 will be humming come QF time only playing together a few times in 6-7 weeks is a stretch. Ireland on the other hand will come into the QF having played close to their top team 4 games in a row.
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I'm not sure Foster can be accused of not giving players enough of a chance to prove themselves. You can certainly argue that these players shouldn't have been selected but they seem to get a fair crack. I'm thinking Havili and Akira for example. You could even argue that the safe option would have been to move Reiko back to the wing but he persisted with him at 13.
To me it seems Foster either can't get the tactics right or he has the wrong players for the style of game he wants to play. Certainly if you want to bomb it from within your own 22, it might be an idea to have players who can actually execute that.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
@taniwharugby is that really Ian Foster's fault though?
When your understudies are Ofa and Laulala and Vai'i and Jacobson and Havili and ALB and it's super apparent that your top 23 (who, incidentally, have all played a lot of rugby together) is all you've got, i would be cotton-wooling where i can as well.
We're a couple of key injuries/red cards from a 30-point quarter final drubbing, simply because in certain positions the guys waiting to step in are a mile behind the incumbents
This is ridiculous. Play the B side until à meaningful game then roll out the A side who haven't played together in weeks? How does that make any sense? At some point you have to trust in the second best player to come in and do a job. Otherwise, the Premier player will be rusty. By the time the QF rolls around the A side won't have played more than 1 test for than a month.
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this is fucking ridiculous
the top side played week 1
The top side played last weekend.The top side played 3 games straight to start the season. It is not like they are meeting in teh carpark
Of our starting front row next week, two are starting, the other is suspended (so this might be our starting front row next week)
Of our starting locks, one has carried a big minute burden, and thus is off the bench, the other is returning from a long injury so needs to be managed
Of our starting loose forwards, two are starting, the other has played every minute so far and needs a rest
Our starting 9 is getting a well deserved rest, and the boom youngster everyone wants to play more is starting
Our starting 10 is playing
Our starting 12 is playing
Our starting centre is getting a rest after playing most games this year. The guy who will be off the bench next week is starting
Our starting 14 is playing, the starting 11 gets rotated but wings are plug and play
Our starting 15 is on the bench, with the guy who will play off the bench starting.16 guys playing will be in the 23 next week. 12 of the starting 15. It's not like we have wheeled out the dirt trackers here
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
Furlong
Depends on the metres. 201.168 and he's spent.
How to get him to run over 201 metres in a game? I'm just the ideas guy. -
@mariner4life Bnag on Mariner, seems pretty sensible, and I can't see how there are many selections that are out there.
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@Machpants said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
Not often that reason talks sense
"Then it all fell apart to an England side who “monstered” New Zealand, to borrow Italy coach Kieran Crowley’s description of the weekend’s 96-17 shellacking."
I don't recall Ireland winning 96-17. -
I expect the coaches would have mapped out best case scenario for playing minutes for the majority of the squad from the end of super rugby through to at least the 1/4, obviously injury and suspensions threw spanners in the works, just as the SA game and Italy game messed things up a bit for different reasons, but from my couch it just feels several players will be under done.
I hope I'm wrong and Fozzie has timed his teams run to this RWC perfectly, I'll happily have him walk out the door with a big
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 5: All Blacks v Uruguay:
This forum is growing into the "I don't care what Foster does, it's wrong" club.
About fucking time.
