All Blacks 2023
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris with all respect Chris you seem a bit blind to a lot of what the NZRU staff and contractors are and have been doing. They have to tread a fine line on many things with Sport NZ employees sponsors and other various stakeholders. I think they do a good job especially when compared to other sports in NZ.
look they are way behind the 8 ball here in regard to elite development I see it working really well over here in Cricket and AFL,NZ could learn a lot and be better.
I suppose if you don't see what other sports are doing with their elite young athletes you think everything is fine in your own back yard.
But honestly NZ are a long way behind in this field and dropping further behind.
I was talking to a certain NZ player who played in the Big Bash this season he was amazed at what resources he had available to him just at a 20/20 franchise level in Australia compared to what he had available as a Black Cap in NZ.I would imagine NZC is quite a bit behind Aus at cricket development Chris, but by same token I think NZ are quite some way ahead of NZC. They do have a pretty good development system from my experience, with almost all young fellas getting resources etc needed to promote them through. Perhaps the Irish have developed a pretty good system where they steer a hell of a lot through the Leinster system, and I personally don't want same here in NZ. I not sure where you get idea a 3 day AB camp is all they do, compared to other teams from around world. I do think we have been caught somewhat in development, and was always going to be case when pro rugby came in, no excuses etc, but we always punched above weight etc, and at moment we are not blessed with too many all time greats etc that we have been blessed with 2007-2016, and there in lies one of the reasons we have to work harder I think.. We still in a country where our rugby board is pouring a good amount of cash etc to kids/grassroots rugby. Which is their job first and foremost, it is to run rugby in whole country, not just the ABs. I actuallyalways thought when in Aus from what I saw AFL over there was similar and why the game was so strong. I will always judge how and rugby board operates by how they promote game at grassroots etc. But anyway apologies this thread is about All Blacks and somehow has (and I one that has joined) has let it become about NZR, which is nothing to do with thread!
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris with all respect Chris you seem a bit blind to a lot of what the NZRU staff and contractors are and have been doing. They have to tread a fine line on many things with Sport NZ employees sponsors and other various stakeholders. I think they do a good job especially when compared to other sports in NZ.
look they are way behind the 8 ball here in regard to elite development I see it working really well over here in Cricket and AFL,NZ could learn a lot and be better.
I suppose if you don't see what other sports are doing with their elite young athletes you think everything is fine in your own back yard.
But honestly NZ are a long way behind in this field and dropping further behind.
I was talking to a certain NZ player who played in the Big Bash this season he was amazed at what resources he had available to him just at a 20/20 franchise level in Australia compared to what he had available as a Black Cap in NZ.I would imagine NZC is quite a bit behind Aus at cricket development Chris, but by same token I think NZ are quite some way ahead of NZC. They do have a pretty good development system from my experience, with almost all young fellas getting resources etc needed to promote them through. Perhaps the Irish have developed a pretty good system where they steer a hell of a lot through the Leinster system, and I personally don't want same here in NZ. I not sure where you get idea a 3 day AB camp is all they do, compared to other teams from around world. I do think we have been caught somewhat in development, and was always going to be case when pro rugby came in, no excuses etc, but we always punched above weight etc, and at moment we are not blessed with too many all time greats etc that we have been blessed with 2007-2016, and there in lies one of the reasons we have to work harder I think.. We still in a country where our rugby board is pouring a good amount of cash etc to kids/grassroots rugby. Which is their job first and foremost, it is to run rugby in whole country, not just the ABs. I actuallyalways thought when in Aus from what I saw AFL over there was similar and why the game was so strong. I will always judge how and rugby board operates by how they promote game at grassroots etc. But anyway apologies this thread is about All Blacks and somehow has (and I one that has joined) has let it become about NZR, which is nothing to do with thread!
Dan my last post about this on this thread,But I am talking about the development of elite players identified as future AB's at a young age and how there is a gap getting them closer to the AB level,And how that could be done a lot better if they looked around at other countries and sports.
Not the overall set up of NZR or what they do further down the chain. -
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I think it sounds reasonable to ask if NZR are keeping abreast of successful methods overseas and in other sports.
I'd say women's rugby here has been a success (even if they didn't win the final).
But I don't know how successful NZR are in training and retaining and upskilling NZ rugby coaches. I'd suggest that is worth a look at. -
@nostrildamus IIRC there was always an article about Henry or Hansen when they would spend time with nrl and nfl teams (or thier players/coaches visited the ABs) so either the media lost interest in what stuff Fozzie is doing, or he hasn't been looking at things outside rugby as his predecessors did (not that I can remember anyway)
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus IIRC there was always an article about Henry or Hansen when they would spend time with nrl and nfl teams (or thier players/coaches visited the ABs) so either the media lost interest in what stuff Fozzie is doing, or he hasn't been looking at things outside rugby as his predecessors did (not that I can remember anyway)
Yes I don't know either. I'm not trying to put the boot into Foster or the NZR here I just wonder what could be improved.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
So what have you fellas done about it? Have you actually put forward suggestions in the NZR review? Or got suggestions who or what should be done? I will add I didn't as I haven't got great ideas what should be done.
I not disagreeing that changes could be made, bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?Sadly, I left the business turnaround consultancy business a few years back....
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Former All Black names his three NZ halfbacks for RWC
With this year’s Rugby World Cup less than six months away, former All Black Steve Devine has named the three New Zealand halfbacks who should go to France.
He picks Smith, Christie, and Weber, which is probably who they'll take.
Smith is obviously number one, and Weber is the only other halfback I'd trust to start a game. Christie has been good off the bench, but I wouldn't want him on for much more than 30 minutes. Probably down to Christie and Roigard for that third spot, or will Ratima force his way in? I haven't seen enough of Roigard yet to make a judgement of him.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim I'll be surprised if foster drops Christie. Think Roigard is in a battle with Weber, probably come down to who doesn't fade.
Roigard is the bold choice, Webber has runs on the board in the black jersey
What advantage does Christie have over Weber?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim I'll be surprised if foster drops Christie. Think Roigard is in a battle with Weber, probably come down to who doesn't fade.
Roigard is the bold choice, Webber has runs on the board in the black jersey
What advantage does Christie have over Weber?
Christie doesn't really excite me
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim I'll be surprised if foster drops Christie. Think Roigard is in a battle with Weber, probably come down to who doesn't fade.
Roigard is the bold choice, Webber has runs on the board in the black jersey
What advantage does Christie have over Weber?
Christie doesn't really excite me
The few times I really noticed Christie he looked competent but more recently he seemed to fall apart a little under stress, and Weber impresses me sometimes with his speed and pass.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim I'll be surprised if foster drops Christie. Think Roigard is in a battle with Weber, probably come down to who doesn't fade.
Roigard is the bold choice, Webber has runs on the board in the black jersey
Roigard looks very very good so far. I will watch his defense as someone claimed it's a weakness. But if he keeps on improving like he has this year or plays close to the last game he should go. Subject to defense and consistency
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@Crucial tough question, even if fit come international season do you pick him without a super season under his belt? history enough? was already in and out of the squad, hude chance for Tela
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim I'll be surprised if foster drops Christie. Think Roigard is in a battle with Weber, probably come down to who doesn't fade.
Roigard is the bold choice, Webber has runs on the board in the black jersey
What advantage does Christie have over Weber?
Alphabetical?
I'd love for them to pull in a newbie (Roigard or Ratima) and then only take one of Weber or Christie (Weber is my choice presently)
Smith is #1 but hopefully he has.been keeping his powder dry with his lack of running, cos we need a 9 who is more than a pass or kick...
