All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?
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I'm definitely on the DMac bandwagon at the moment, but will be interesting to see how he goes next year. I'd hope he's at least in the squad.
Thinking more on our 10s game management, compared to Sexton when Ireland toured, and a big difference was that the Irish team was making sure Sexton had multiple options as often as possible when he took the ball. That makes it a lot easier to play first receiver consistently. So often when Beauden or Mo get the ball, their only options are to run it or shovel it on to the next bloke in the backline. There rarely appears to be any dummy runners or players trying to create some deception to give them some options on attack. Ireland play a simple game, but it's damn effective, and if the ABs were to replicate it at least some of the time then we have the players to really exploit it. Rieko taking the ball behind the outside shoulder of Jordie as a dummy runner will just coast through with his pace.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
After watching DMac play for the All Blacks XV & the following Barbarian's games he is head and shoulders our best option. He's always had the potential to thrive as a pivot & it's clear that his game maturity has really skyrocketed in the last 3 seasons.
I've long insisted that 10 was the position to unlock his potential (he doesn't have the size & necessary attributes for an elite fullback) and his recent performances for ABs XV & Barbarians at 10 have confirmed that. His passing selection is unreal & his kicking out of hand looks to have improved considerably. His game management is arguably better than Mo'unga & Barrett at the moment.
Add that to his broken field running, consistent goal kicking & his no fear approach to defense, I reckon he'll be our 10 for the next cycle.
He's coming into his prime tactically, he's now a really intelligent player at 10, I'm excited to see how it plays out.
Out of interest, with DMac at first five, isn't it a bit concerning Waikato didn't win the NPC?
Richie the Mo started 8 tests this season for 6 wins a draw and a loss - probably not his fault we didn't win 8 straight.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
So often when Beauden or Mo get the ball, their only options are to run it or shovel it on to the next bloke in the backline.
It's a tough one though eh - it's really hard to believe that we would have an international team (especially the ABs) that just doesn't have attacking plays/options to run, so does it come down to these guys just don't call/run/know the plays, or is the cupboard bare?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
I'm definitely on the DMac bandwagon at the moment, but will be interesting to see how he goes next year. I'd hope he's at least in the squad.
Thinking more on our 10s game management, compared to Sexton when Ireland toured, and a big difference was that the Irish team was making sure Sexton had multiple options as often as possible when he took the ball. That makes it a lot easier to play first receiver consistently. So often when Beauden or Mo get the ball, their only options are to run it or shovel it on to the next bloke in the backline. There rarely appears to be any dummy runners or players trying to create some deception to give them some options on attack. Ireland play a simple game, but it's damn effective, and if the ABs were to replicate it at least some of the time then we have the players to really exploit it. Rieko taking the ball behind the outside shoulder of Jordie as a dummy runner will just coast through with his pace.
I don't have a complete explanation, but this game suggests we can find the answers.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
So often when Beauden or Mo get the ball, their only options are to run it or shovel it on to the next bloke in the backline.
It's a tough one though eh - it's really hard to believe that we would have an international team (especially the ABs) that just doesn't have attacking plays/options to run, so does it come down to these guys just don't call/run/know the plays, or is the cupboard bare?
Yeah, I wouldn't want us to be as structured as Ireland are, we have a lot more natural talent in our backline and playing too structured will somewhat nulify that. But it seems to me we are too far the other way at the moment, and with modern defensive systems as good as they are, our 10s are often out of ideas on what to do after a couple of phases. Teams like Ireland try to break down defenses with a series of plays in a row to march them up field. I really think we'd benefit from that sort of approach if the opposition has turned up to play and are defending like demons.
All that said, I did see some positive signs from the team on the EOYT. And to bring it kind of back on topic before @Tim bans me, I don't think the cupboard is as bare as some people make out, I just think we need to be a lot smarter about how we utilise our strengths at test level which is a different kettle of fish to Super. Whether it's Beauden, Mo'unga, DMac or even the likes of Perofeta if we get our tactics right any of those blokes can thrive.
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@kiwi_expat think the main issue is that he is unlikely to get regular starts at 10 in super to really bed in, he's likely to start at 15, maybe move in some plays or finish a game at 10.
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I not sure if I should mention his name ,(haven't checked thread), but I actually was a real Zarn Sullivan fan a couple of years back, and could see him at 10. Has that door closed do you think, like his booming left foot etc, and wouldn't mind seeing him get a few runs for Blues this year.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
Out of interest, with DMac at first five, isn't it a bit concerning Waikato didn't win the NPC?
Richie the Mo started 8 tests this season for 6 wins a draw and a loss - probably not his fault we didn't win 8 straight.
You think any one player can make Waikato champions? It is a 15 man game, and Waikato have some serious deficiencies in that regard.
Given that Waikato did rather better than usual, I don't see how DMac can be at fault there.
(I would note that it wasn't RM's brilliance where they won the test where the opposition failed to kick the ball out in time, nor the one where the opposition were happy to accept a draw. We played to much closer to 5-3.)
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The SR coaches will have a big say in whether the other options outside of Barrett and Mo'unga get enough time at 10 to advance their claims. I am hoping that common sense prevails at the Chiefs and McMillan has finally realised the best positions for DMac and Stevenson (based on the AB XV games). But as @taniwharugby says, I can see DMac playing a lot at fullback too.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
Out of interest, with DMac at first five, isn't it a bit concerning Waikato didn't win the NPC?
Richie the Mo started 8 tests this season for 6 wins a draw and a loss - probably not his fault we didn't win 8 straight.
You think any one player can make Waikato champions? It is a 15 man game, and Waikato have some serious deficiencies in that regard.
Given that Waikato did rather better than usual, I don't see how DMac can be at fault there.
(I would note that it wasn't RM's brilliance where they won the test where the opposition failed to kick the ball out in time, nor the one where the opposition were happy to accept a draw. We played to much closer to 5-3.)
Waikato also had one eye on the future and gave a bit of time at 10 to Kemara.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 10 after BB & RM finish?:
The SR coaches will have a big say in whether the other options outside of Barrett and Mo'unga get enough time at 10 to advance their claims. I am hoping that common sense prevails at the Chiefs and McMillan has finally realised the best positions for DMac and Stevenson (based on the AB XV games). But as @taniwharugby says, I can see DMac playing a lot at fullback too.
I'd be very surprised if DMac plays another game at 15, if ever. Especially with Mo'unga's confirmed departure.
He played most of 2021 Super Rugby either starting at 10 or shifting there after HT, since then he's played exclusively at 10 in 2022 for Suntory and Waikato and then McMillan co-coached NZ XV at 10. Also I thought I'd read that McMillan more or less guaranteed Stevenson the 15 jersey was his this year, as he was considering other opportunities?
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@kiwi_expat I've been banging the "Stevenson at fullback" drum for a while but I'm not 100% convinced they will play him there. It will also depend on what role McMillan and co have for Gatland.
DMac did play a few times at fullback for Waikato, e.g., against Otago when Kemara started at 1st 5. That was due to injuries.
DMac is only contracted for 2023 so if they want him to stay beyond this year, there is a very obvious solution.
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We should be looking at players who can take the pressure off of whoever the new ten is.
Jordie at 12 has potential to be very useful. Experienced and comfortable being the second play maker. I also think Zarn Sullivan could be used at fullback and do a similar role to Dagg (his kicking game, his attack is not there yet)
I think the support that Dagg offered to Cruden etc has been underrated
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@Duluth yeah, I remember DC talking about how much he liked having Nonu outside him as a bail out option. I don't think we got that with Havili last year, which put too much pressure on the 10. Also agree re: Jordie, I think he's key to our chances this year.
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@No-Quarter I wouldn't knock Havili too much, he plays very much a 2nd 5 game, where he act as first receiver a lot, but as you say, Jordie could be key, he can play first receiver as well as strong on the crash when needed.
Exciting times ahead I reckon. -
@kiwi_expat Even though he has had his moments at fullback, I have often thought he got ragdolled there and may have been questionable under the highball. Jordan or Beaudy at fullback offers a more secure option and Jordan in particular has pace to burn from the back. Also wonder if Havili could be another 10 option, as he has played there for the Crusaders.
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@Duluth and the fact we had a very good fullback like Dagg allowed Ben Smith to settle into test footy on the wing, build experience and then move to fullback where under the AB gameplan you have more playmaking responsibility.
