Thoughts on Cane now?
-
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't recall a clear win turning into a humiliating draw within 10mins under Cane, but sure.
-
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't recall a clear win turning into a humiliating draw within 10mins under Cane, but sure.
Who was the captain when we should have lost to Aus? I can't remember.
-
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't think that's down to Cane, Whitelock or whoever is captain, but more a collective yips style of thing.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't think that's down to Cane, Whitelock or whoever is captain, but more a collective yips style of thing.
Totally, that was my point. The captain is not as huge of a deal as it has been in the past. It is more collective calm/clear heads. The fact that Cane is not the best 7 far outweighs any possible captaincy on the field
-
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
-
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality. -
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't think that's down to Cane, Whitelock or whoever is captain, but more a collective yips style of thing.
Totally, that was my point. The captain is not as huge of a deal as it has been in the past. It is more collective calm/clear heads. The fact that Cane is not the best 7 far outweighs any possible captaincy on the field
Don't disagree. But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
That said, we can't change captain based on which 7 is best for each game and game plan. Or can we?
-
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
Deserves his current place in the 23, but really hasn't kicked on as much as we'd all hoped.
-
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/ -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
-
@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
He might fold opposition more spectacularly than Paps, but I don't think he does it very often and he has demonstrably less tackles per game and takes longer to move from ruck to ruck, plus Paps can be a rock in defense himself. So yeah, I am not sure I know these things either, I doubt it is lineout takes. Or passing. Or catching.
-
@nostrildamus yeah I'm not convinced he hits harder.
They should have given the captaincy to DP too when Cane was ruled out, but maybe didn't want to overburden him.
-
@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I thought Ardie was about 190cm 😀
-
McCaw has a lot to answer for. He buggered up the international careers of two really good 7s. Just because of his skill, fitness, longevity, leadership etc, etc.
-
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
-
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince. -
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince.Have you read the match ratings by the press after games they are a joke.
Just because one writes Akira was MOM 2 others will write he was average. -
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince.Also, Chris voted for Akira as man of the match
-
@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
I thought he regularly topped the tackle count, arriving at rucks stats in many games? Remember someone going thru the stats after Ellis Park and Cane's performance was pretty much at the top.
Not saying he should be nailed on as captain, but he's anything but a passenger.
-
@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus yeah I'm not convinced he hits harder.
They should have given the captaincy to DP too when Cane was ruled out, but maybe didn't want to overburden him.
Stick with Sam W if Sam C loses out to Paps. Safe, sensible solution.
