Thoughts on Cane now?
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@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality. -
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Machpants said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@antipodean said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That fact that Cane is still in contention really sums up all that is wrong with the ABs now. It is almost impossible to be dropped if you are one of the leadership group. Cane has been an amazing player who has obvious mana in the AB group. But he is so far off the pace as a player now, he should be struggling to get game time at the Chiefs.
That is a fern-special over-egged post, well played.
He's still pretty clearly our best 7 at the Chiefs and should be co-captain.
I think I was one of the first to argue that Paps was the new Cane, and I'm happy to see him take Cane's spot on form. With Whitelock there, we don't need his captaincy.
After that final 10mins against England, I'm not so sure.
After many of the games this year with Cane as cap, you can say the same thing
I don't think that's down to Cane, Whitelock or whoever is captain, but more a collective yips style of thing.
Totally, that was my point. The captain is not as huge of a deal as it has been in the past. It is more collective calm/clear heads. The fact that Cane is not the best 7 far outweighs any possible captaincy on the field
Don't disagree. But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
That said, we can't change captain based on which 7 is best for each game and game plan. Or can we?
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
Deserves his current place in the 23, but really hasn't kicked on as much as we'd all hoped.
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@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/ -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
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@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
He might fold opposition more spectacularly than Paps, but I don't think he does it very often and he has demonstrably less tackles per game and takes longer to move from ruck to ruck, plus Paps can be a rock in defense himself. So yeah, I am not sure I know these things either, I doubt it is lineout takes. Or passing. Or catching.
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@nostrildamus yeah I'm not convinced he hits harder.
They should have given the captaincy to DP too when Cane was ruled out, but maybe didn't want to overburden him.
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@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I thought Ardie was about 190cm 😀
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McCaw has a lot to answer for. He buggered up the international careers of two really good 7s. Just because of his skill, fitness, longevity, leadership etc, etc.
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
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@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince. -
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince.Have you read the match ratings by the press after games they are a joke.
Just because one writes Akira was MOM 2 others will write he was average. -
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
Sorry that isn't strictly true. Akira showed it against the Aussies and periods elsewhere.
People keep saying these great AB games by Akira I don’t remember that happening.
Drifting in and out of games but not 80mins of
quality.Eh? I didn't say great. But is your standard 80 minutes? Wow. Even Ardie can usually only manage 55.
Akira has been lauded with "MOTM" test comments from the press. I don't recall that with Blackadder.https://www.allblacks.com/videos/akira-ioane-goes-beast-mode-vs-australia/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300170383/all-blacks-v-argentina-akira-ioane-grabs-chance-against-pumas--but-what-next
OR: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-all-blacks-number-6-jersey-is-akira-ioanes-for-as-long-as-he-wants-it/I don't take notice of the press all click bait.
There was a link first up to his video highlights.
But if you don't believe the press and don't watch the match I guess you'll be hard to convince.Also, Chris voted for Akira as man of the match
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@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
I thought he regularly topped the tackle count, arriving at rucks stats in many games? Remember someone going thru the stats after Ellis Park and Cane's performance was pretty much at the top.
Not saying he should be nailed on as captain, but he's anything but a passenger.
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@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus yeah I'm not convinced he hits harder.
They should have given the captaincy to DP too when Cane was ruled out, but maybe didn't want to overburden him.
Stick with Sam W if Sam C loses out to Paps. Safe, sensible solution.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
But I think Cane offers things that Paps doesn't (and vice-versa) and they are pretty much neck and neck for me.
I don't think he does anymore, I'm struggling to think of anything?
I thought he regularly topped the tackle count, arriving at rucks stats in many games? Remember someone going thru the stats after Ellis Park and Cane's performance was pretty much at the top.
Yeah without looking at the stats, I don't think those are things Cane offers that DP doesn't.
Not saying he should be nailed on as captain, but he's anything but a passenger.
That certainly wasn't something I said.
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@Bones said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
That certainly wasn't something I said.
For sure. I just think a fit Cane is a bit different, but as a good as Paps. I think the number of injuries night be an issue though and he ain't getting any younger.
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@gt12 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
i fully expect Cane to start when he is fit. Because AB coaches and selectors are super conservative, and have been for a long time (far longer than Foster). Incumbency trumps everything, and players are seemingly always brought back. It also takes a huge amount for core guys to not get picked.
On one hand, this attitude has its merits. But i feel the drawback is, to be a core guy in the ABs you are going to be a pretty fucking good player, and this means you are unlikely to send in a run of absolute stinkers that force the hand. Rather there will a micro-drop off that allows you to maintain your spot, even if another guy could take us up a level.
It's the same reason i think Moody will start the first test next year despite me having to really think hard to remember he even exists.
Funnily enough, WC years tend to bring the coaches to the point where they need to make the hard decision.
I think Moody became number one in 2015 (after not even being picked in the original squad) and Izzy Dagg overtook Mils (also at the tournament). So, we can have some big changes, but it will be interesting to see who gets the opportunities.
Excuse the pedanticism but you're conflating two tournaments there.
Mils scraped to his 200th and last in 2011 after Dagg hit the town with CJ (and got injured).
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@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I like Cane, I think he's a solid leader that the AB's have invested alot in. He's been brought through the grades and groomed for captaincy. He's a solid player, gives an honest effort everytime he plays.
The question is whether is he's the best 7 now in NZ? Given Dalton Papali'i form over the EOYT I would say not. If he can't command a starting place in the team then he shouldn't be captain. Harsh but the realities of professional sport. Absolutely he should be in the squad but he'll need to focus on winning his spot first.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
