All Blacks v Argentina II
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crucial it needs review. Not nearly enough consistency.
The really interesting thing would be to know if that ref called same in Boks Leekmen first test. I'd be stunned if one or both teams didn't do same thing at least once in that game.
If the call had been made in first couple of mauls on Saturday, fair enough, but there's a strong sense ref wasn't consistent over course of game.
He certainly seemed to forget the offside line in last 10.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
Seem to recall in sheds at half time in 2003 RWC final Johnson saying, 'Fuck off, Clive'. Senior players need to be problem solvers.
You played in the 2003 World Cup final ? Awesome stuff !!
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Imagine how Perofeta feels.
I imagine he's outraged.
He's been replaced on the bench by a two time World Rugby Player of the Year, a guy who scored the match-sealing try in the 2015 RWC from fullback, and a guy who's clearly been preferred at his franchise at first five for the entire season.
Most likely, I imagine he's looking over his shoulder at DMac.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Got to wonder if Sotutu can get a chance this year. Do you think he will go to an NH club and wait for eligibility?
If he does, he'll have to do that after 2024, because that's when his contract with NZR expires.
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Pretty much what I expected.
I'm a bit surprised at Papali'i instead of Akira - but, if the main plan is to sub your openside, then it makes some sense.
Dalton is a bit bigger than Cane, I think. Removes the need of juggling Ardie to 7, and we still have options of moving Barrett to 6 if necessary.
I guess Frizell and Cane can play 8 if Ardie gets injured, but that won't be ideal.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
That's an interesting comment, because you don't have to go back too many weeks to see people talking about us being blessed with the quality of loosies we have.
In a way, they're right - but the problem is we have a whole bunch of same-same guys who are probably best characterized as 7.5s. Which may well be what you needs to play 7 these days.
We can field any of Cane, Savea, Papali'i, Blackadder in that role and not lose too much.
But the guys who are playing 8 aren't a lot bigger - well, the main one is Ardie, but Sotutu and Jacobson aren't great big munters either.
If you want big guys to play 6 and 8 (which I mainly do), you're really looking at Frizell, Akira, Robinson, Sowakula - two of whom aren't in the squad, and the other two are mainly 6s these days..
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Ah, great. Hadn't seen this, yet.
Referee: Nic Berry (RA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nika Amashukeli (GRU)
Assistant Referee 2: Jordan Way (RA)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (IRFU)
NZR run WR.
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@Tim Hope not. Reckon he’s more likely to wait for Ardie to take a break in 2024, but even with Razor he’ll have Grace to contend with you’d think. He’s gonna have to wait til the EOYT barring injury you’d think at this point. Hope to see him in Cardiff.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
That's an interesting comment, because you don't have to go back too many weeks to see people talking about us being blessed with the quality of loosies we have.
In a way, they're right - but the problem is we have a whole bunch of same-same guys who are probably best characterized as 7.5s. Which may well be what you needs to play 7 these days.
We can field any of Cane, Savea, Papali'i, Blackadder in that role and not lose too much.
But the guys who are playing 8 aren't a lot bigger - well, the main one is Ardie, but Sotutu and Jacobson aren't great big munters either.
If you want big guys to play 6 and 8 (which I mainly do), you're really looking at Frizell, Akira, Robinson, Sowakula - two of whom aren't in the squad, and the other two are mainly 6s these days..
He’s 113kg apparently. Same as Ioane and more than Frizell
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Pretty much what I expected.
I'm a bit surprised at Papali'i instead of Akira - but, if the main plan is to sub your openside, then it makes some sense.
Dalton is a bit bigger than Cane, I think. Removes the need of juggling Ardie to 7, and we still have options of moving Barrett to 6 if necessary.
I guess Frizell and Cane can play 8 if Ardie gets injured, but that won't be ideal.
Not Cane, but Frizell yes. He played some 8 for the Highlanders back in the day I think around the time Hemopo was there
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@FakatavaAllBlack He's been solid without being spectacular, but is still the best option. Tupaea misses some of his skillset (kicking game, for example) and had a mare against Ireland. RTS hasn't played enough rugby. Jordie is a fullback. There's just no one who clearly offers more (until ALB returns from injury).
Criticising our rookie 12 for lacking a kicking game when the two veteran 10s also lack good enough kicking games (as well as a ton of other key aspects of the required skillset) seems very harsh.
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@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
A lot of questions coming out of Papalii's selection:
- Is this a reflection on Akira's performance last week?
- Who is covering 6 and 7? Is Dalton covering both?
- Did the coaches not see Dalton's performance at 6 in Dunners in a backrow with Cane and Ardie?
- If Dalton is covering 7, does this mean Ardie is no longer an option at 7 and is seen purely as an 8?
- If that is the case, then does this basically mean that Hoskins is not even a realistic option to cover 8 from the bench?
- On this, who is covering 8 in the event that Ardie has to leave the field?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
That's an interesting comment, because you don't have to go back too many weeks to see people talking about us being blessed with the quality of loosies we have.
In a way, they're right - but the problem is we have a whole bunch of same-same guys who are probably best characterized as 7.5s. Which may well be what you needs to play 7 these days.
We can field any of Cane, Savea, Papali'i, Blackadder in that role and not lose too much.
But the guys who are playing 8 aren't a lot bigger - well, the main one is Ardie, but Sotutu and Jacobson aren't great big munters either.
If you want big guys to play 6 and 8 (which I mainly do), you're really looking at Frizell, Akira, Robinson, Sowakula - two of whom aren't in the squad, and the other two are mainly 6s these days..
Not sure I can find the page readily but I recall a site saying that statistically, despite playing so much at 6 for the Blues, over his career Akira has played a little more often at 8.
And if we are allowed to look further than Foster, MMT comes into the mix.
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@junior said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
A lot of questions coming out of Papalii's selection:
- Is this a reflection on Akira's performance last week? MAYBE NOT
- Who is covering 6 and 7? Is Dalton covering both? SCOOTER COVERS 6
- Did the coaches not see Dalton's performance at 6 in Dunners in a backrow with Cane and Ardie? ASSUME WILL REPLACE CANE IN Q3.
- If Dalton is covering 7, does this mean Ardie is no longer an option at 7 and is seen purely as an 8? YES.
- If that is the case, then does this basically mean that Hoskins is not even a realistic option to cover 8 from the bench? FOSTER IS ALL IN ON SAVEA.
- On this, who is covering 8 in the event that Ardie has to leave the field? FRIZELL.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Hard to disagree: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-slight-tactical-fix-for-the-all-blacks-to-make-is-an-easy-one/
I agree with some of it but they weren't entirely running Schmidt set plays. There was more organisation for the forward pods which worked well. In the first half they often made good ground off phases and when half breaks occurred they swooped on them. To me it was more that there were little plays that they kept stitching together and when you and winning those moments you keep going. The backs were there to pull the trigger when required.
I can't see how side to side will benefit the set up here.
I entirely agree with using the boot to create pressure though. That is our biggest failing and we seem to think the only pressure kicks are short bombs and box kicks. Kick chase seems to be a dirty concept for some reason.
Sit in the pocket with a clear plan if they drop early in anticipation then the wing, 12 or 15 offer a running option.
One last comment is that we did try to go down that left wing again and in a previous post I blamed Rieko for trying to take the outside. On another watch I realised that he did exactly what worked in the Clarke try with the biggest difference being that Jordie was nowhere to be seen this time. In the try Jordie steamed through on a straight line which meant the Ioane could drag the defence wider and creat a hole for him to run into then distribute out once the line broke. Whether there was a miscommunication/expectation or poor vision the next time I don't know but a piece of the puzzle was missing. -
@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Hard to disagree: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-slight-tactical-fix-for-the-all-blacks-to-make-is-an-easy-one/
Their (Los Pumas) strength in contact and the ground has to be negated, which means steering clear of too much contact in close and spending too much time trying to break down a brick wall. The All Blacks need to spread them out with a game that goes from tramline-to-tramline quickly and then get boot to ball when it doesn’t work.Isn't that suggested solution the very thing we've been criticising for years?
