All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@MiketheSnow trying to put lipstick on a pig. Thanks
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@ACT-Crusader nice neutral tones jersey. A cardie would have been more appropriate.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pukunui Oh we have way further to go.
This coach thinks that Cane is a better player than Papalii. He is a fucking moron.
I’ve seen nothing from papalili in black to suggest he’s the answer. At all
I’d be on the give sotutu a run at 8 and move savea to 7 train though.
Blackadder and Grace are to the manor born.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Better balance ? More like two extremely forgettable All Blacks.
Maybe. But you need a proper 8 and a proper 6 to help that 7 be a proper 7.
I'd argue it is a better backrow than what went out there tonight.
Ardie is a 7, not an 8, for all the yards in contact he makes.Lot of talk on here tonight about playing guys out of position, and the only way to fix that? Well, seems obvious.
The Ardie at 8 is a really interesting phenominom, fenominum, phenomenon. Whatever. It started with coaches, I am pretty sure in ABs, realising his potential off the back of an attacking scrum. He's so fucking awesome at that. And even when he was playing 7, he'd go to the back for attacking scrums. That's really where is should have ended. But it didn't. And our best 7 since Richie has been unbalancing back rows since
The problem is that in a game like tonight where tough yards need to be made Ardie is not the size 8 we need. It was a tight game and it needed to be grind for the full 80. We don't have an 8 with power because we have not been looking for one because Ardie has been occupying that position because of our current coach. He does not have the foresight too drop Cane, move Ardie to 7 and then experiment at 8. This is a long standing problem. He has been holding onto a bunch of old men and the decline in them is getting worse each year.
I am not arguing with that. He is loyal to a fault.
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@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan. This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pukunui Oh we have way further to go.
This coach thinks that Cane is a better player than Papalii. He is a fucking moron.
I’ve seen nothing from papalili in black to suggest he’s the answer. At all
I’d be on the give sotutu a run at 8 and move savea to 7 train though.
Blackadder and Grace are to the manor born.
Blackadder is injured as I’m sure you are aware and grace is yet to be tried this season (somehow the chiefs 8 got selected ahead of him for an anonymous few minutes as an AB, never to be picked again I would guess)
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Better balance ? More like two extremely forgettable All Blacks.
Maybe. But you need a proper 8 and a proper 6 to help that 7 be a proper 7.
I'd argue it is a better backrow than what went out there tonight.
Ardie is a 7, not an 8, for all the yards in contact he makes.Lot of talk on here tonight about playing guys out of position, and the only way to fix that? Well, seems obvious.
The Ardie at 8 is a really interesting phenominom, fenominum, phenomenon. Whatever. It started with coaches, I am pretty sure in ABs, realising his potential off the back of an attacking scrum. He's so fucking awesome at that. And even when he was playing 7, he'd go to the back for attacking scrums. That's really where is should have ended. But it didn't. And our best 7 since Richie has been unbalancing back rows since
The problem is that in a game like tonight where tough yards need to be made Ardie is not the size 8 we need. It was a tight game and it needed to be grind for the full 80. We don't have an 8 with power because we have not been looking for one because Ardie has been occupying that position because of our current coach. He does not have the foresight too drop Cane, move Ardie to 7 and then experiment at 8. This is a long standing problem. He has been holding onto a bunch of old men and the decline in them is getting worse each year.
Yep. Ardie is a stud and his leg drive is unreal. Ardie plays beyond his size.
But we don't actually need that all the time. We need a David Lyons or a Read type who crashes on to the ball at full pelt and when tackled is falling forwards. A fucking big lump.
The guaranteed 4 yard gains every carry.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan.
It was Ireland II or France EOYT 2021 all over again - except the good bits happened in the first half. Apart from the scrum and 1-2 mauls, there was zero go forward, mistakes at critical times and poor breakdown work.
This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
Poor prep/coaching of the replacement forwards most likely. Breakdown work fell apart when they came on.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan.
It was Ireland II or France EOYT 2021 all over again - except the good bits happened in the first half. Apart from the scrum and 1-2 mauls, there was zero go forward, mistakes at critical times and poor breakdown work.
This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
Poor prep/coaching of the replacement forwards most likely. Breakdown work fell apart when they came on.
And perhaps some panic because we were not making the easy yards we have been accustomed to.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
If not dropped, I am sure Razor would certainly demand a lot more of them than Foster and I can definitely see a few of the current squad not really being up for the challenge of someone like Razor or indeed any new coach who might turn this ship around
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@junior said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
If not dropped, I am sure Razor would certainly demand a lot more of them than Foster and I can definitely see a few of the current squad not really being up for the challenge of someone like Razor or indeed any new coach who might turn this ship around
I think they genuinely like him. But it isn't a social club, it is supposed to be a lean mean point-scoring machine. Which, statistically, it isn't.
The players, coaching team, or quality of the opposition are to blame.
The question is what can be done, and I don't think just dropping and replacing and moving players has proven to be a consistently effective solution. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@junior said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
If not dropped, I am sure Razor would certainly demand a lot more of them than Foster and I can definitely see a few of the current squad not really being up for the challenge of someone like Razor or indeed any new coach who might turn this ship around
I think they genuinely like him. But it isn't a social club, it is supposed to be a lean mean point-scoring machine. Which, statistically, it isn't.
The players, coaching team, or quality of the opposition are to blame.
The question is what can be done, and I don't think just dropping and replacing and moving players has proven to be a consistently effective solution.As I alluded to in a semi tongue in cheek rant a few match threads back.....its all too nice.
From the social media account, to the breakdown punditry, to the players to the management.
Too friendly. not ruthless. Even when they get hatcheted by the ref they turn the other cheek. Beaudy nearly had his neck broken against the boks and Finlay Christie is over checking the assailants well being. Peter O Mahoney would have him by the throat.
Same with the refs. Sexton, Biggar, Owen Farrell , Eddie Jones , Cheika, Rassie. They are in the refs ear all the time and take no shit.
NZ management and captain are just stoic wet blankets now.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
Sounds like Conspiracy Theory 101 bollocks considering the players who vocally & publicly backed Foster were Ardie, Ritchie & Sam Whitelock. And I really can't see Robertson being daft enough to drop those three.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve doesn’t this sound like NZ right now.? It seems the country has been neutered by Cindy highlighted but a fear approach to Covid.
Yeah pretty much.
Like I remember Goldie as a player. Loved a bit of sledging and an over exuberant rub it in your face try celebration.
He is completely insipid as a pundit. All he is missing is the pom poms.
Muliaina did a Vox pop on Cane post Ellis park and outlined "that's why he is our captain".
You played with McCaw for pretty much your whole career mate. Thats the standard.Leave the jersey in a better place than you found it was the mantra.
Most of these lads aren't doing that.
Whitelock is the only oldie doing himself justice.
Cane , Aaron Smith, Havili, Taylor, Coles, dare I say Retallick. Most of the props.
They can foxtrot Oscar for a few games. They have lost 6 out of 8.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.
Someone else deserves a chance.
There are plenty of diamonds in the rough who just need a chance. Fletcher Newell was sat at home two weeks ago and I watched him push an Argentinians head up his arse today aged 22.
Give the boys a chance. Inject some exuberance into it.
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@Stag Yeah because SR and test rugby are about the same standard aren't they......
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A day on and what is sad is we are so use to this it doesn’t hurt!
On reflection they did some good stuff, especially the first half, on attack and d, looking world class, which I think needs to be the teams dna. Issue was being more patient and execution. Then it’s the impact from bench, what a shocker, most notably at hooker which has been an issue all year. Or timing of subs need to be sorted, I would be keeping the starters on to 60-65 mins.
Our trust in our system under pressure is also a major work on, as the score closed we looked panicked as we have in the last 24mnths. I think ALB is someone who we sorely miss at centre, can work in close quarters, leadership.
Another player watching how the Argies defended us is a Thomas Umanga-Jensen. Although he gets inj he looked dynamic in first couple of. Games, can play direct, offloads, pressure d line.
Trust the Process…… haha -
@98blueandgold said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Strange old game, we played so well I thought in the first half. For me it was the subbing of the front row at 44min was the turning point. (Argie hooker got subbed at 75th min!), they were dominating and when they went off our attack changed, going a little wider and playing into puma line speed hands. Codie Taylor, awful and has been all year, so has Coles, who is 2nd hooker? also lack of composer in backs. looked rushed again in all we did and like we didn't have plan.
Agree, just don't know what happened. Taylor stuffed a few throws, one he hit target with Akira caught and Puma just took it out of his hands. When the new front row came on our maul disintergrated seemingly, picture I will keep seeing is Newell at the back of one just standing sideways going flatout towards our goal line. We just never adjusted to ref,I thought, he was allowing holding players in tackle, but hitting every slight incorrect entry to rucks etc, we never adapted. Probably other thing that surprised me was how such a big thing was made of Crusaders players being at home, and associated press, none were that great, Sam W was bloody good in lineouts, but seemed to be a little off pace in rest of game, Scott B was ok, Richie M after statement performance last week was ok and no more, Havili and Jordan were pretty ordinary. I not saying only Crusaders players were not flash, but really though they may make a statement at home.
